Long Term Conservation

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Long Term Conservation
Topic Started: May 27 2010, 12:40 PM (1,568 Views)
lamna	May 27 2010, 12:40 PM Post #1
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	I'm not sure if this belongs here but what do you chaps and girl-chaps think about what will happen with conservation if humanity is around for a long time? Let me explain what I'm on about Here in Europe the introduced Ruddy Duck is breeding with native White-headed Ducks and producing fertile hybrids. And some conservationists are worried that eventually there will be no pure White-headed Ducks left. I don't see what the problem with that is, if the hybrids are better at surviving and the white headed genes still continue, what is the problem? I don't see why we are interfering in evolution. Sure Ruddy Ducks aren't supposed to be here, but they are doing no harm at all apart from merging with the White-headed Ducks, and even that is probably a good thing for the White-headed genes, as the Ruddy genes will just help the new duck expand it's range. I see this sort of thing all the time, rare subspecies on the brink and nobody even considering hybridization. This seems more like preservation to me, keeping living museum specimens and not conserving the future of a species. Do you think this might continue into the future, with us trying to keep animals from evolving to preserve the species we have now?
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]

Replies:
Holben	May 29 2010, 02:35 PM Post #31
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	The what would we do with these species? Just let them live out their lives until we leave?
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


Spinosaurus Rex	May 29 2010, 02:54 PM Post #32
Apex Posts: 716 Group: Members Member #178 Joined: Jun 5, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology Nationality: Half Caucasian, 40% Thai, 10% German Favorite Quote: They will loot and pillage in the name of God, rape and murder in the name of country. And when we are all gone, they will call it peace.	By then we'd probably a lot of other things, too. It's hard as hell to predict the future beyond, say, 10-20 years. Too many variables. Hopefully we could introduce other members of that species to sustain a viable breeding population.
	The Dreaded AOL Dial-Up has left me afraid to spend more than 5 minutes posting at risk of losing it all. Arghhh.


Holben	May 29 2010, 02:59 PM Post #33
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	And what would we do with that?
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


Spinosaurus Rex	May 29 2010, 06:07 PM Post #34
Apex Posts: 716 Group: Members Member #178 Joined: Jun 5, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology Nationality: Half Caucasian, 40% Thai, 10% German Favorite Quote: They will loot and pillage in the name of God, rape and murder in the name of country. And when we are all gone, they will call it peace.	Um, what?
	The Dreaded AOL Dial-Up has left me afraid to spend more than 5 minutes posting at risk of losing it all. Arghhh.


lamna	May 29 2010, 06:39 PM Post #35
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	I think we should keep a genetic record of them, perhaps preserve a few in captivity if it amuses us or they are useful. But in general I think if a species dies out naturally we should let it go. Quote: But we still have control over the Amur leopards, if we introduce a foreign leopard into the population we lose control and could result in its extinction. If the leopards get very inbred we just introduce an Amur leopard that lived in a zoo into the population to add diversity. I could understand if we had no other Amur leopards in zoos, but for now we're not that desperate. The population's still very small, though larger than I thought at about 300. Still that mean's nothing if there were only a small number of founders for the captive population. Also if we used North China leopards you'd be hard pressed to call it unnatural as their historic ranges overlap. I also don't see how it would lead to it's extinction. If the other leopard's genes were not good enough, it would not be able to pollute the population and it's population would crash. Oh and I'd like to clarify that hybridization should be done in captivity, so breeding can be controlled and any problems eliminated. Edited by lamna, May 29 2010, 06:40 PM.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Cynovolans	May 29 2010, 07:20 PM Post #36
Servant to Empress Min Posts: 1,170 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jun 30, 2008 Favorite Quote: "Where is the queen? Point the queen out to us!"-Myeonseong's murderers	lamna May 29 2010, 06:39 PM I also don't see how it would lead to it's extinction. If the other leopard's genes were not good enough, it would not be able to pollute the population and it's population would crash. The problem would be if it is too good, the leopard population could grow rapidly and overhunt its prey. We should just assume the worst case scenario if we did that. There is a park of tigers that all or most have some Siberian heritage to them, thanks to a reintroduced Siberian-Bengal tigress to the park. They are larger than the average Bengal tiger, and just imagine if they were too large to hunt their prey. THEY WOULD EAT HUMANS!
	I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong


lamna	May 30 2010, 04:40 AM Post #37
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	But Siberian tigers tend to take smaller prey than their Indian relatives do, what with their more limited menu.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Ook	May 30 2010, 04:48 AM Post #38
not a Transhuman Posts: 2,933 Group: Members Member #282 Joined: Mar 10, 2010 Gender: Male	and bengal tiger genes can change it



lamna	May 30 2010, 09:15 AM Post #39
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	Change what?
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Cynovolans	May 30 2010, 09:35 AM Post #40
Servant to Empress Min Posts: 1,170 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jun 30, 2008 Favorite Quote: "Where is the queen? Point the queen out to us!"-Myeonseong's murderers	lamna May 30 2010, 04:40 AM But Siberian tigers tend to take smaller prey than their Indian relatives do, what with their more limited menu. But sometimes mixing genes could make the tiger dwarf both Bengals and Siberians! The point still stands that we don't know what could've happened had we introduced even more Siberian-Bengal hybrids into the area.
	I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong


Ook	May 30 2010, 09:53 AM Post #41
not a Transhuman Posts: 2,933 Group: Members Member #282 Joined: Mar 10, 2010 Gender: Male	lamna May 30 2010, 04:40 AM But Siberian tigers tend to take smaller prey than their Indian relatives do, what with their more limited menu.



lamna	May 30 2010, 11:24 AM Post #42
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	A tiger's a tiger. Siberians are slightly bigger and a bit fluffier, it's not the end of the world.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Cynovolans	May 30 2010, 12:08 PM Post #43
Servant to Empress Min Posts: 1,170 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: Jun 30, 2008 Favorite Quote: "Where is the queen? Point the queen out to us!"-Myeonseong's murderers	But it's the end for the tigers!!
	I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong


lamna	May 30 2010, 01:04 PM Post #44
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	How? The tigers won't mind if they are not pure.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Toad of Spades	May 30 2010, 01:10 PM Post #45
Clorothod Posts: 624 Group: Members Member #114 Joined: Dec 27, 2008 Nationality: United States Favorite Quote: Street smart is just an excuse for dumb people to use the word smart to describe themselves.	Subspecies are easy to save because you could breed them with other subspecies until you get a hybrid that resembles and functions like the desired subspecies. Re-release them and when they breed with the original subspecies the offspring should essentially be the same as the original. Edited by Toad of Spades, May 30 2010, 01:11 PM.
	Sorry Link, I don't give credit. Come back when you're a little...MMMMMM...Richer. Bread is an animal and humans are %90 aluminum.


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