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| Long Term Conservation | |
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| Topic Started: May 27 2010, 12:40 PM (1,565 Views) | |
| lamna | May 27 2010, 12:40 PM Post #1 |
 
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I'm not sure if this belongs here but what do you chaps and girl-chaps think about what will happen with conservation if humanity is around for a long time? Let me explain what I'm on about Here in Europe the introduced Ruddy Duck is breeding with native White-headed Ducks and producing fertile hybrids. And some conservationists are worried that eventually there will be no pure White-headed Ducks left. I don't see what the problem with that is, if the hybrids are better at surviving and the white headed genes still continue, what is the problem? I don't see why we are interfering in evolution. Sure Ruddy Ducks aren't supposed to be here, but they are doing no harm at all apart from merging with the White-headed Ducks, and even that is probably a good thing for the White-headed genes, as the Ruddy genes will just help the new duck expand it's range. I see this sort of thing all the time, rare subspecies on the brink and nobody even considering hybridization. This seems more like preservation to me, keeping living museum specimens and not conserving the future of a species. Do you think this might continue into the future, with us trying to keep animals from evolving to preserve the species we have now? |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Holben | May 27 2010, 02:05 PM Post #2 |
Rumbo a la Victoria
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I doubt much more introduction will carry on, as awareness has increased the public has begun to think of it as wrong, and interfering with natural in general as negative too. I think that we'll only change the environment around our cities. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| lamna | May 27 2010, 02:23 PM Post #3 |
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Change it in what way? |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Ddraig Goch | May 27 2010, 02:42 PM Post #4 |
Ar hyd y nos
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To be honest, this sort of question depends on how you view evolution. Of course, when a species adapts or breeds with another species, creating a new one, then that's evolution at work. But if that is happening due to human actions, for example the case of the Ruddy and White-Headed Ducks, then people are likely to view it as "artificial" evolution, and see it as wrong. Of course, it isn't, and since it's already happening in some cases there isn't a lot we can do. However, I think that we should try and prevent species mixing unnaturally where possible, in case we end up losing more biodiversity. |
| Save the Blibbering Humdinger from extinction! | |
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| lamna | May 27 2010, 04:07 PM Post #5 |
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Well I don't think we should encourage it, unless say your saving a rare subspecies by creating hybrids with another. I mean look at the Javan Rhino, the Vietnamese subspecies is functionally extinct, there are at best 8 left, and they may all be female and the Javan subspecies only has a population of about 50. Mixing them would bring a lot of genetic diversity and save the Vietnamese rhino's genes. But I don't see the harm in British Red Deer mixing with Sikas. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| colddigger | May 27 2010, 05:21 PM Post #6 |
Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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I think we should set up gene banks for the dying species, let them hybridize in the wild, and make "pure" ones for our own entertainment. |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Spinosaurus Rex | May 27 2010, 06:44 PM Post #7 |
Apex
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Perhaps not for our own entertainment, but I'm inclined to agree with Colddigger. Evolution works everywhere, in every way. But, in a case like the White-Headed ducks, where it has already started and there's not much we can really do about it, we may as well just sit back and behold. We should prevent evolution due to our actions if at all possible, but should probably hybridize if it saves a species/subspecies. We can always introduce the genes of the "purebreds" later in the breeding line if we want to. Or we could clone. Infinite possibilities. Everytime a species dies, a part of Earth dies. We should do everything in our power to stop this, to hell with Nature. |
The Dreaded AOL Dial-Up has left me afraid to spend more than 5 minutes posting at risk of losing it all. Arghhh.
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| Holben | May 28 2010, 10:42 AM Post #8 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Spino- does your species/earth dying include extinctions due to competition?  Evolution has nothing to worry unless we use a 1E19 megaton weapon on earth, and that'll be out of our reach for maybe centuries yet. We're unable to stop evolution now, and i hope that by then we'll have settled our problems with the environment. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| lamna | May 28 2010, 10:46 AM Post #9 |
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No, but we can stunt it and change it in our direction. |
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Holben | May 28 2010, 10:55 AM Post #10 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Not all of it. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Cynovolans | May 28 2010, 04:38 PM Post #11 |
Servant to Empress Min
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Lamna, what you call genetic diversity is what conservationists call genetic pollution. While creating hybrids between two species or subspecies may be be beneficial for the species, it won't be for the environment around it. I've heard of hybrids of native and invasive plants that will take over an area and choke the rest of the plants, and starve off some of the animals. But in some cases hybrids may not be that bad, the American chestnut was nearly destroyed in a plight but creating hybrids with Asian chesnuts saved the species. |
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I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong | |
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| lamna | May 28 2010, 05:28 PM Post #12 |
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Sure that will occasionally happen but I don't see how ducks with slightly different plumage are going to rampage round Iberia and North Africa. Edited by lamna, May 28 2010, 05:30 PM.
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Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash] | |
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| Toad of Spades | May 28 2010, 05:49 PM Post #13 |
Clorothod
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It would make sense if the ducks were endangered species or extremely different from each other. Take the Cuban crocodile for example. They are endangered and so different from other crocodiles. Their highly terrestrial nature is unique and they should be prevented from interbreeding. Interbreeding is a major problem affecting wild Cuban crocodile populations, especially if the offspring are sterile. If too many of them produce sterile hybrids then they will be wasted genes and it could pose a major threat if the "pure" Cuban crocodiles die off from old age. If sterile hybrids are the majority of those left, the species is good as dead. Even if the hybrids are fertile it is a problem because the highly unique body form and habits will be phased out. However if neither duck is endangered, if they are very closely related, or share very similar body forms and habits, than it isn't too much of a problem because the species can easily integrate with each other with no major difference between the hyrbid and both parent species. Edited by Toad of Spades, May 28 2010, 05:50 PM.
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Sorry Link, I don't give credit. Come back when you're a little...MMMMMM...Richer. Bread is an animal and humans are %90 aluminum. | |
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| Cynovolans | May 28 2010, 07:23 PM Post #14 |
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Servant to Empress Min
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There are several differences between the White-Headed Duck and the Ruddy Duck. Mostly in behavior, the White-Headed duck relies more on the water and matures later than other ducks. Interbreeding with Ruddy ducks could force them to adopt their behavior, which means faster mature rates and less dependence on water could lead to a population explosion for the White-Headed duck. |
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I wish I could give the public a true picture of the queen as she appeared at her best, but this would be impossible, even had she permitted a photograph to be taken, for her charming play of expression while in conversation, the character and intellect which were then revealed, were only half seen when the face was in repose. -Lilias Underwood when speaking of Empress Myeongseong "I was born in the dark. I went out into the light, and your Majesty, it is my displeasure to inform you that I have returned to the dark. I envision a Seoul of towering buildings filled with Western establishments that will place herself back above the Japanese barbarians. Great things lie ahead for the Kingdom, great things. We must take action, your Majesty, without hesitation, to further modernize this still ancient kingdom."-Min Young-ik to Empress Myeongseong | |
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| Ook | May 29 2010, 01:26 AM Post #15 |
not a Transhuman
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why we dont save amur leopards with african leopards?they are same species,but they are unique,if we breed amur leopard with african leopard,hybrids propably cant survive in boreal forest of far east.. |
   
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