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cuadrupedal birds?...; i think more than one person has thouth that...
Topic Started: May 5 2010, 02:30 PM (1,202 Views)
xaritscin
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i have seen many especulative projects but i always have wondered, its possible for birds to develop cuadrupedal forms?, i have seen that some birds could develop claws on their wings, so i wanted to know if is plausible that these claws could evolve in a full hand, and later, a foot.
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Pando
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Actually quadrupedal birds are in lots of Spec Evo projects because it's possible. They still have the genes for fingers and teeth, so it can definitely happen.

And it's quadrupedal, not cuadrupedal.
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Carlos
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I'm really tired of arguing why quadrupedal birds are not a possibility, so I won't.
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Scrublord
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I agree that birds could become sloth like climbers or knuckle-walkers, but not true quadrupeds.
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Ook
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i agree with jofhfaa
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Temporary
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It's highly improbable, not impossible. The sad truth is that the front limbs of a bird, while could take short sudden bursts of force, are not capable of supporting weight. It's like how we can't fly with our arms, just not doable (this is just the way I understand it, I'm not the expert here by a long shot).

Of course, given enough time and the right mutations helped by evolution, yeah, it can happen. But it would take a long time, and even then, about as improbable as us evolving wings.
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T.rex09
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I agree with El Squibbinator.
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Canis Lupis
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More primate-like, yes.

But if it's descended from the hoatzin, well...

Juveniles already use their claws to climb up trees. Hoatzin are developing ruminating capabilities. I don't see it as too farfetched for hoatzin to climb down from the trees and, with a mass mammalian extinction (like a new P-Tr), develop quadropedalism.

Granted, it won't be very common. Probably only a single genus or family. But still possible.





What I hate though is people assuming that avian anatomy is too restrictive to produce diversity. I'm working on my 100MYF phase for the new TFIB, and I'm findling lots of variation is indeed plausible.
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Toad of Spades
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Its not impossible. That's like saying lobe-finned fish can't evolve to support weight on land or live in deserts with little dependence on water. Quadrapedal birds are a little unlikely, but nowhere near as unlikely as humans with powered flight.
Edited by Toad of Spades, Jun 20 2010, 12:23 AM.
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Kamidio
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We can make humans with powered flight. Genetic Engineering and Planes.
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

I think he's talking about naturally evolving powered flight.
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Kamidio
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Riiiiiiiight.
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MitchBeard
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The Shoe-billed stork are known to lunge forward while grabbing prey, then use their wings to help push themselves upright.
Edited by MitchBeard, Jun 20 2010, 02:23 AM.
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xaritscin
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a posible way of evolution for this, would be that a bird that become terrestrial, in case of becoming herbivore its wings would evolve in claws for digging in search of roots and also for walking like hadrosaurs, because a carnivore would be more theropod like. then this clawed bird gets a good environment and gets bigger, but two legs cant support much weight, so their claws become foot-like. and this gives them a support for their big bodies. thats the idea for bulky hervibore birds, maybe looking sauropod like. another one is that this clawed birds, get food in an open plain, this would push them to evolve some way for running, so instead of the tipical ostrich bipedal running, their claws and feet become hoof-like. this would give them not only a good chance when chased by predators but also they can grow to bigger sizes (not so bigger than the others).

its this enough plausible?
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Adman
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Totally not lamna
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Yeah, it sounds goodand plausible.
Projects and concepts that I have stewing around
Extended Pleistocene- An alternate future where man died out, and the megafauna would continue to thrive (may or may not include a bit about certain future sapients)
Inverted World- An alternate timeline where an asteroid hit during the Barremian, causing an extinction event before the Maastrichtian. Dinosaurs, pterosaurs, and notosuchians make it to the present, along with a host of other animals.
Badania- Alien planet that has life at a devonian stage of development, except it exists in the present day.
Ido- Alien world where hoppers (derived flightless ballonts) and mouthpart-legged beasts are prevalent.
Leto- Life on a moon orbiting a gas giant with an erratic orbit; experiences extremes of hot and cold.
The Park- ???
Deeper Impact- a world where the K-Pg extinction wipes out crocodilians, mammals, and birds; squamates, choristoderes, and turtles inherit the earth.
World of Equal Opportunity- alternate history where denisovans come across Beringia and interact with native fauna. Much of the Pleistocene fauna survives, and the modern humans that end up crossing into North America do not overhunt the existing animals. 10,000 years later, civilizations exist that are on par with European and Asian societies.
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