[ARCHIVED] Land Octopi?

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[ARCHIVED] Land Octopi?
Topic Started: Apr 30 2010, 02:57 PM (1,961 Views)
Pando	Apr 30 2010, 02:57 PM Post #1
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	I had them in Postozoic I, took them out for Postozoic II, but now I've been researching cephalopods more and now I'm stuck at a midpoint. What should I do with them? My brain's hurting! If I accept them, the starting point is in Asia, around the point that the Swampus from TFIW started from. And are these plausible? Tree Octopus: Hexapus (picture from Dromornis of DevArt, but I like the concept):



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 02:58 PM Post #2
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	Possibly more for octopi than for squid.
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


Pando	Apr 30 2010, 03:00 PM Post #3
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	I know. I hate land squid. The best example for terrestrial octopi that I know of is the Pacific Blue Ringed octopus. They are basically gilled terrestrials.



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 05:49 PM Post #4
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	Well, they'd have a lot of problems on land, particularly due to the salinity of the water they live in. It'd have to be some sort of fresh-water creature to become a successful terrestrial, due to frequent rain and the lack of sea-level abundance of salt in most land-based water bodies.
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


Pando	Apr 30 2010, 08:52 PM Post #5
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	So how would the octopi become freshwater? I think there are freshwater gastropods, so a cephalopod is possible. What about they evolve the leathery skin to hold water better during the freshwater transition to hold the salt?



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 08:57 PM Post #6
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	There is a squid that can survive in brackish water. Presumably, the octopus would have to supply its body with salt. It would eat more often (or even lick rocks) to get its daily salt intake.
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


Pando	Apr 30 2010, 09:05 PM Post #7
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	So cephalopods can survive in freshwater? Let's cross that off the list. Problems with land octopi: ~~Freshwater~~ Skeleton Respiratory System Water Retination system Good oxygen carrier



MitchBeard	Apr 30 2010, 09:06 PM Post #8
proud gondwanan Posts: 431 Group: Members Member #281 Joined: Mar 10, 2010 Gender: Male Nationality: Australian	Gastropods have a LOT of freshwater species. They're second it species number only to insects, I'm surprised there isn't more on them in here.



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 09:07 PM Post #9
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	For the respiratory system, it could learn to breathe through its skin, like a frog. If that doesn't supply enough oxygen, then the siphon bladder could double as a lung.
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


Pando	Apr 30 2010, 09:07 PM Post #10
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	Siphon bladder... ? --EDIT-- Ooh, another problem! Problems with land octopi: ~~Freshwater~~ Skeleton Respiratory System Water Retination system Good oxygen carrier Die in young age Edited by Pando, Apr 30 2010, 09:09 PM.



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 09:09 PM Post #11
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	Y'know, whatever it is that pushes water in and out of the siphon.
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


MitchBeard	Apr 30 2010, 09:10 PM Post #12
proud gondwanan Posts: 431 Group: Members Member #281 Joined: Mar 10, 2010 Gender: Male Nationality: Australian	That would be their pallial cavity



Pando	Apr 30 2010, 09:11 PM Post #13
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	Sort of like what TFIW did? Problems with land octopi: ~~Freshwater~~ Skeleton Respiratory System Water Retination system Good oxygen carrier Die in young age For the skeleton a modified radula would probably work as an endoskeleton, but I'd like thoughts on it working. And water retination won't be that needed in a swamp, so that can be crossed off too. They just need leathery skin. --EDIT-- I have found a case that the Pallial Cavity has been turned into a lung, in snails. Wikipedia - Cyclophoroidea These terrestrial gastropods have lost the ctenidium (comb-like respiratory apparatus) and osphradium, and the pallial cavity has been modified as a lung. Edited by Pando, Apr 30 2010, 09:13 PM.



Practically Uninformed	Apr 30 2010, 09:14 PM Post #14
Informed enough to care Posts: 1,570 Group: Members Member #274 Joined: Feb 20, 2010 Nationality: Born in DC, bred in SC, now in NJ. A partial citizen of Tartarus Favorite Quote: "Ya gotta put the soup-drinker in the flute-lips, and shake it all up!"	The way I see it, this thing won't be able to lift its body off of the ground. At best, the land squid will push and pull itself along. The modified radula will have nodes extending to the arms, forming a base for strong muscles in the stubby limbs. Presumably, with time, more of the radular would recede down into the limbs, until they become strong, finger-jointed "legs".
	You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper!


Pando	Apr 30 2010, 09:18 PM Post #15
Obey or I'll send you to the moon Posts: 5,648 Group: Members Member #275 Joined: Feb 24, 2010 Area of expertise: Future Evolution	Why fingers? Also, the tentacly arms won't get skeletonized, as they are needed to be flexible. Is it enough to happen in 30 million years time (mass extinction in 90 MYF leaves niches open, and due to Punctuated Equilibrium something will fill its place, and the period I want to focus on the possible land octopus is 120 MYF, which is basically a haven for them). And while lungs are possible, they still need a better oxygen carrier.



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