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| alternate earths; What if evolutionary divergence caused humans to never evolve because some invertebrate group took their place long before? | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 15 2010, 11:43 PM (1,196 Views) | |
| megasquidward | Apr 15 2010, 11:43 PM Post #1 |
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Galactic genius overlord who wronged no-one
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I have this idea regarding all these parallel earths where a divergence somewhere along evolutionary history caused humans to never evolve, because the divergence caused some group of invertebrates to eventually fill the place humans did on this earth. The invertebrates in the group that did so on each earth look like a hybrid between people & the corresponding "human earth" species in that group, but are, anatomically, 100% the corresponding earth species.
Edited by megasquidward, Apr 15 2010, 11:47 PM.
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| Ook | Apr 16 2010, 12:11 AM Post #2 |
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not a Transhuman
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giant invertebrates? |
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| Pando | Apr 16 2010, 12:22 AM Post #3 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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There are a lot of reasons giant invertebrates cannot live, the biggest possible with high oxygen could be 10 feet long, but would need a lot of legs (see: Arthropleura) Humans don't really fill a role in the enviroment. Our presence in the ecozones are destruction. If you're telling about intelligent invertebrates, don't see that happening. They have segmented legs without splits (if they even do have legs), which will hinder sentience.
Does that mean the invertebrates look exactly like vertebrates? |
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| colddigger | Apr 16 2010, 12:52 AM Post #4 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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Wait what? What do the legs have to do with anything at all? If they are able to manipulate their environment with ease then they can develop sapience. If it's like an insect then it will have claws and pads which can be changed into some kind of hand... Also yeah, are you saying that these are going to be invertebrates that look just like vertebrates? |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Dean | Apr 16 2010, 01:07 AM Post #5 |
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Infant
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Well, ants could evolve sapience on land, and cephalopods in water. From this an interesting Earth could develop on which not one, but two species are sapient. Cephalopods are highly individualistic and behave similar to more intelligent mammals, their sapient descendants would be kinda like humans, in personality and behavior, but ants, with their hive mind would be more like an insectoid swarm of aliens from a sci-fi movie. The question is: Peace or war between the two sophonts? |
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| Pando | Apr 16 2010, 01:32 AM Post #6 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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If it were that way I would say peace. The cephalopods could easily destroy the ants if they found a way on land, not so for the ants if they found a way to the water. But they live in 2 different worlds and if the ants aren't carnivores they don't compete and so I would say: peace. |
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| megasquidward | Apr 21 2010, 06:52 PM Post #7 |
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Galactic genius overlord who wronged no-one
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Well, the legs are, structure-wise, like a cross between a megasquid's & those of the invertebrate species from our earth that corresponds to the species in question from that earth. Also, in those earths, they look like a cross between the invertebrate species in question as it appears on "our earth" & humans. Edited by megasquidward, Apr 21 2010, 07:41 PM.
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| Pando | Apr 21 2010, 07:00 PM Post #8 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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First off, the megasquids legs are impossible to support such a huge creature. Also, the exoskeleton itself is very weak. And then there is the fact that arthropods breathe through their skin and in tubes inside the body, making them impossible to attain large sizes. |
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| Holben | Apr 22 2010, 02:48 PM Post #9 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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And the fact cephalopods need to be wet to breathe, their blood cannot carry significant oxygen, and oxygen debt would take a hell of a long time to fulfil. Their hydro-muscles would require constant watering, and they just aren't built to drag themselves around. Even their skin would probably be vulnerable to UV light. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| megasquidward | Apr 30 2010, 09:47 PM Post #10 |
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Galactic genius overlord who wronged no-one
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1) an actual megasquid is the size of an elephant. 2) the exoskeleton would be made of substances that allow it to grow to human size while remaining strong. 3) the tubes would be augmented by human-type lungs. Edited by megasquidward, Apr 30 2010, 09:49 PM.
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| Pando | Apr 30 2010, 10:00 PM Post #11 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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1) Still too big 2) Exoskeletons need to be shed, another limiting factor. Also, the inside is squishy. Big animals need internal support. 3) Cephalopod lungs are possible, evolved from the Pallial Cavity. I even have 1 gastrapod example (there are probably more): The Cyclophoroidea. |
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| megasquidward | Apr 30 2010, 10:12 PM Post #12 |
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Galactic genius overlord who wronged no-one
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1) The "alt earth" cephalopods have lungs like, say, a megasquid's or squibbon's. 2) Evolution would give them hemoglobin blood, thus solving the oxygen problem. 3) The leg's would be structured like a megasquid's (muscular hydrostat core, surrounded by columns of longitudinal muscles, surrounded by circular muscles. If legs structured like that can support a terrestrial mollusk the size of an elephant, it can support something only the size of a human.) 4) Desert hoppers can survive in a desert. UV light is a major threat to animals in deserts. 1) an actual megasquid is the size of an elephant. 2) the exoskeleton would be made of substances that allow it to grow to human size while remaining strong. 3) the tubes would be augmented by human-type lungs. On an unrelated note (sincere apology for yelling) AM I THE ONLY MEMBER OF THIS FORUM WHO ACTUALLY GOES OUT OF ITS WAY TO PROOFREAD EACH COMMENT IT MAKES BEFORE POSTING OR, AT THE VERY LEAST, CHECKS BACK LATER & FIXES ANY ERRORS??? I'm not yelling at you guys, I'm just annoyed that no-one bothers to check their spelling. I case you're wondering why I said "it" when it's rude to do that to people, I did so in reference to the in case any of the commenters are secretly extraterrestrial hermaphrodites, gynandromorphs, or anatomical androgynes who are members of this forum. |
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| Canis Lupis | Apr 30 2010, 10:13 PM Post #13 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Yeah, for a non-skeletoned creature, elephant size on land is nearly impossible to attain. |
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| Pando | Apr 30 2010, 10:15 PM Post #14 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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How would evolving hemoglobin be easy? It's changing from a copper-based oxygen carrier to an iron-based oxygen carrier. Not an easy switch. Exoskeleton will not work! The animal needs internal support, which an exoskeleton does not support! The entire body will just ooze into mush at its legs! |
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| megasquidward | Apr 30 2010, 10:38 PM Post #15 |
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Galactic genius overlord who wronged no-one
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1) Dude, the megasquid fact file page on the official site for The Future is Wild explicitly states that megasquids are 4 meters tall, & weigh 8 tons. Humans reach an average height of a paltry 6 FEET, & the heaviest ever human only weighed 7/10 OF 1 TON. The epithets are in comparison to the height & weight of a megasquid. 2) They would develop something like an ostracoderm fish's armor. As to internal support, maybe something like a mollusk shell, but jointed & internal? Edited by megasquidward, Apr 30 2010, 10:41 PM.
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