| Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web. While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous. Join our community today! |
| Bears instead of early man...; Bears and Primates swich | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Apr 15 2010, 08:30 PM (895 Views) | |
| sam999 | Apr 15 2010, 08:30 PM Post #1 |
|
Adult
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I was thinking, and came to the idea that there are quite a few simelaratys between bears and early homenoids in lifestyle. Therefore, the idea of this is simple, bears and early man swich. It's the homonids that end up in bearish nichs as large bigfootish forest creatures and the bears in the niches of the primates with tree-swinging to large, ground-atapted and gorrilaisq types. Wonder what ulisa sapian will look like.... |
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.![]() ![]() ![]() Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please... | |
![]() |
|
| Canis Lupis | Apr 15 2010, 08:34 PM Post #2 |
![]()
Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
![]()
|
Bears would have to lose considerable weight if they even hope to swing. Really, the best point of divergence would be when carnivorans themselves were just starting to evolve. They were less specialized then. |
![]() |
|
| sam999 | Apr 15 2010, 08:37 PM Post #3 |
|
Adult
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
So no tree-liveing forms. Still, a bear in the niche of home erectus or a gorrila would be something... |
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.![]() ![]() ![]() Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please... | |
![]() |
|
| Canis Lupis | Apr 15 2010, 08:40 PM Post #4 |
![]()
Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
![]()
|
Gorilla might be possible. But the swap would have to take place relatively early for the swap to be effective. |
![]() |
|
| Margaret Pye | Apr 15 2010, 09:35 PM Post #5 |
|
Adult
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Bears can climb pretty well. A miniature bear could easily evolve longer limbs and more agile paws and go leaping about the trees, like a lot of their relatives over in Procyonidae... although those niches are already full of procyonids, or monkeys. If we're looking at procyonids rather than ursids, though, there's quite a lot of overlap between procyonids and primates in terms of ecological niche and general design. The procyonids don't have the same hand dexterity (but I dare say they could evolve it). They have better senses of smell and worse vision, which might lead to slightly different niche occupation. I don't know if procyonids could ever produce a brachiating form - I think their shoulder structure would be too hard to adapt - but a lot of them are very lemur-like as it is. Similarly, turning a ring-tailed lemur into a grizzly bear seems to me to go like this: 1) Make it a lot bigger 2) Make it a bit more carnivorous 3) Make it solitary? Is bears' solitary nature a reflection of their ecology, or just a taxonomical thing? A panda is kind of like a gorilla anyway. More specialised diet, and solitary, but the niche is similar. Now, about evolving a sophont from a bear, the two big hurdles are that bears are solitary - apparently politics was one of the main driving forces in the development of human intelligence - and a lack of manual dexterity. Both of which could be fixed. |
| My speculative dinosaur project. With lots of fluff, parental care and mammalian-level intelligence, and the odd sophont. | |
![]() |
|
| Canis Lupis | Apr 15 2010, 09:42 PM Post #6 |
![]()
Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
![]()
|
I'd say the best primate to turn ursid-like would be the baboons. Quite carnivorous and there's a lot of potential for large carnivorous forms. I considered this for my "Life Support" phase of "The Future of the Kinds". That's where I got the tetranychus (though, admittedly, the tetranychus is a macaque descendent and is more feline-like). But it's equally possible for baboons to become ursid-like. As for bears, carnivorans have a highly specialized shoulder structure making it next to impossible for them to become brachiators, which is what I presume sam wants. This is why the striger from "After Man" is so improbable. Now, ape-like forms are entirely possible. But brachiators? Leave that to the primates. Or perhaps hyraxes. |
![]() |
|
| sam999 | Apr 21 2010, 12:34 PM Post #7 |
|
Adult
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That's more-or-less the goel... ::) |
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.![]() ![]() ![]() Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please... | |
![]() |
|
| Pando | Apr 21 2010, 12:38 PM Post #8 |
|
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
It would be a problem because of their lack of thumbs. But if they were to evolve more dexterous hands we could have carnivorous intelligent gigantopithecus-like bears. |
![]() |
|
| Empyreon | Apr 21 2010, 12:58 PM Post #9 |
|
Are you plausible?
![]()
|
This might show my ignorance of specific earth evolution, but aren't raccoons pretty closely related to bears? They have pretty dexterous hands, and there might be something to look at there when evolving manipulators for bears... |
|
Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
| |
![]() |
|
| Pando | Apr 21 2010, 01:17 PM Post #10 |
|
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Raccoon sapients? Better than bears. Hadn't thought of them.
|
![]() |
|
| Ook | Apr 21 2010, 01:52 PM Post #11 |
|
not a Transhuman
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
alternative,not future evolution
|
![]() ![]() ![]()
| |
![]() |
|
| Scrublord | Apr 21 2010, 01:59 PM Post #12 |
|
Father Pellegrini
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Bears in gorilla niche? Already got 'em. Called pandas. |
|
My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
![]() |
|
| Pando | Apr 21 2010, 02:01 PM Post #13 |
|
Obey or I'll send you to the moon
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
What I meant that the bear sapients might look like gigantopithecus.
Edited by Pando, Apr 21 2010, 02:01 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Empyreon | Apr 22 2010, 12:31 PM Post #14 |
|
Are you plausible?
![]()
|
Alright, then go back to the raccoon's and bear's common ancestor and build from there... |
|
Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
| |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Alternative Evolution · Next Topic » |



















7:13 PM Jul 10