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Flightless pterosaur ideas
Topic Started: Apr 5 2010, 08:27 AM (1,474 Views)
Carlos
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http://pterosaur-net.blogspot.com/2010/04/actinopatagia-percussion-and-sketchy.html

By Mark Witton. I had similar thoughts, but I must say the idea of a jaçana like azhdarchoid never occured to me, presumably because I think ctenochasmatoids could more easily produce something like that.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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Carlos
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The Dodo
Apr 6 2010, 05:09 AM
I noticed Hatzegopteryx was mentioned, didn't that live on an island? I think it would be a good candidate for evolving flightlessness if the K-T extinction never occurred.
Islands are small, and for an aerial predator flight is required to go elsewhere if food runs out. Better would be a large isolated landmass, like Australia
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Venatosaurus
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It'd be an interesting prospect/project for anyone, to take an early pterosaur, such as Dimorphodon, and have them evolve flightlessness, and from there on have them inch their way up into dominance (whether by an extinction event, or simple outcompetition), some interesting forms could really result from such a 'mishap' !



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Carlos
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I find it astonishing nobody ever went with a flightless dsungaripterid. Both dimorphodontids and dsungaripterids were even more capable of producing flightless forms than azhdarchids would ever be.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Pando
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I guess that they would be easy to become terrestrial. Love the fact that it had teeth.
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Holben
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I can easily see them as arboreal insectivores, but i'm not so sure about plains flightlessness. What with the dinos and all. Perhaps the more heavily forested coastal regions could have 'em?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Pando
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Maybe they could outcompete mammals and maniraptors as arboreal predators?
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Holben
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Maybe, but it would require several more million years than they had.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Pando
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Maybe, but it would be possible in the Eocene had all the dinosaurs died with KT but all pterosaurs survived.
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Holben
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That's more likely.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Pando
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In that scenario the pterosaurs would probably be the competitors of early mammals, rather than birds.
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Margaret Pye
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Hey, guys, I wrote auk pterosaurs! Look at meeee!

I'm not sure about the jacanazdarchines. Seems to me that the lifestyle would work better for a flying animal, and that flying pterosaurs would be more likely to fill it. Real jacanas retain flight, after all, and so do non-insular rails.

Love the caprajarids, though. And Apterigulo makes a lot of sense (though the name makes me go "as opposed to a wolverine that does have wings?" Surreal image.)

The problems with Dixon's pterosaurs were: they were all bipedal except the Lank (well, you can't blame him for that, everyone thought pterosaurs were bipedal back then), and they all had teeth (c'mon, he really should have known that toothed pterosaurs were extinct long before KT!) Plus, some of them are rather suspiciously avian-looking. There's no real reason Soars shouldn't have such small heads and long necks, or Harridans shouldn't kill things with their feet - they've had 65 my to evolve strange features - but on top of everything else it comes off looking a bit dodgy.

Azhdarchids probably get the most limelight because the KT extinction is the one people usually want to undo - far fewer people think of reviving the Jurassic or the Triassic or the Permian, or the Eocene or the Cambrian.

If the dinosaurs go extinct, or are severely reduced, but some azhdarchids survive, they could easily evolve cursorial flightless forms - heck, I wouldn't be surprised if that led to Terrasaur World, where "a really big mammal" continued to mean "a badgery thing." I'm assuming mammals mostly outcompeted flightless birds by having four limbs. Well, pterosaur forelegs are much less specialised than bird forelegs, and they could easily be despecialised into another set of generalised legs.

Hmm, what about the teeth? Under what circumstances is a good set of teeth superior to a beak and gizzard? For herbivory, maybe? Maybe mammals would still take most of the browsing and grazing niches?

And given that lemurs and squirrels existed before KT, not to mention multituberculates, I dunno whether flightless arboreal pterosaurs would get much of a foothold...

Whale pterosaurs'd work - they had thin-shelled eggs, they could evolve viviparity.
My speculative dinosaur project. With lots of fluff, parental care and mammalian-level intelligence, and the odd sophont.
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Holben
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Not to sure about whale pterosaurs- sharks would eat 'em. They would go onto the mainland to sleep and reproduce, perhaps.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Carlos
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Quote:
 
I'm not sure about the jacanazdarchines. Seems to me that the lifestyle would work better for a flying animal, and that flying pterosaurs would be more likely to fill it. Real jacanas retain flight, after all, and so do non-insular rails.


I also think ctenochasmatoid pterosaurs most likely would fill those niches, since they were the ones that specialised in wading niches; a Pterodactylus like animal could easily produce a jacana analogue.

Quote:
 
Hmm, what about the teeth? Under what circumstances is a good set of teeth superior to a beak and gizzard? For herbivory, maybe? Maybe mammals would still take most of the browsing and grazing niches?


Agreed, though chewing does occur in birds (cuckoos, hoatzins), so its perhaps possible that pterosaurs could develop chewing. However, I consider tapejarids the only pterosaurs capable of full herbivory, so unless we have goat like tapejarids around I'm not convinced pterosaurs would be dominant herbivores.

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Not to sure about whale pterosaurs- sharks would eat 'em. They would go onto the mainland to sleep and reproduce, perhaps.


Following that logic cetaceans would never have evolved
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Holben
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JohnFaa
Apr 7 2010, 06:27 AM
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Not to sure about whale pterosaurs- sharks would eat 'em. They would go onto the mainland to sleep and reproduce, perhaps.


Following that logic cetaceans would never have evolved
Loads of sharks were killed by the KT event, cetaceans stepped in to fill the gap. They also evolved a lot in rivers and lakes, where competition was not so widespread.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Margaret Pye
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Um... I'm not an expert here, but I'm fairly positive there was enough time between KT and the evolution of proper cetaceans for the large shark population to recover.

And why couldn't whale pterosaurs start out in rivers and lakes?
My speculative dinosaur project. With lots of fluff, parental care and mammalian-level intelligence, and the odd sophont.
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