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| Intelligent Ants?; What would life have been like for them? | |
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| Topic Started: Mar 29 2010, 03:56 PM (2,565 Views) | |
| Practically Uninformed | Mar 29 2010, 03:56 PM Post #1 |
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Informed enough to care
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Ants have sometimes been called "the perfect society". In many ways, they behave like humans; they "domesticate" other bugs, they use problem-solving and teamwork to overcome obstacles, they wage war, they have complex systems of organization, and they have huge complexes where they all live. However, most ants (and most eusocial insects, for that matter) rely on instinct rather than intellect to solve their problems and keep their society afloat. So what if, in some small part of the world (presumably, any part of the world), ants developed a sense of knowldge, emotion, and willpower to match our own? Would their civilization be any different? Would they conquer their brothers and claim the world as their own? |
| You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper! | |
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| Pando | Apr 7 2010, 01:10 PM Post #46 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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But how does the actual hive mind work? Telepathy? |
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| Holben | Apr 7 2010, 02:11 PM Post #47 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Not possible. Must be pheromones or electric fields or summink. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Practically Uninformed | Apr 7 2010, 08:01 PM Post #48 |
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Informed enough to care
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Definitely pheremones. Electricity is very unlikely to appear in the systems of an insect. |
| You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper! | |
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| colddigger | Apr 7 2010, 08:37 PM Post #49 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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It would be pheromones, rather inefficient if you ask me since ants can only sense on one end and release on the other... |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| Pando | Apr 8 2010, 12:56 AM Post #50 |
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Obey or I'll send you to the moon
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but how would the actual mind work. I know pheromones can work for communication, but I don't think that intelligence can be moved in pheromones. |
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| Holben | Apr 8 2010, 03:16 AM Post #51 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Ganglia, as it always has done. They'd grow and more parts would be re-specced for creativity and intelligence though. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Zorku | Apr 8 2010, 07:53 AM Post #52 |
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Newborn
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With ants and pheromones it becomes easier to think of it like a computer, and not just in the usual poor analogy way. Memory would be the big issue depending on how compact the scent signals were but each ant could be a processor and all the processor has to do is simple calculation. With thousands of ants running over the scent trails you would have a thousand-core processor so the small memory could be less of an issue. And all of the other parts of a computer are features I don't feel like explaining or things that just keep it going like the power supply and ants already handle that. No need for a video card though as they don't need a monitor. But if you want to ignore the physical constraints of the universe and pack a significant portion of something like a human brain into them the interlocking funiculus could serve as a bridge between the brain matter. The human brain is so far in excess of what we need for motor control that we learn new appendages all the time. You can stick wires into our heads and if we can tell what's happening it isn't long before we develop voluntary control over them. We often rewire the thought process after strokes where we lose big portions of it. As such with better communication power the ants could literally relay information right between each other. Judging by how dogs are about to tell so many unique scents apart this sort of chemical communication is less easily mixed up than verbal communication so the speed of transfer could be radically faster after some optimization. Edited by Zorku, Apr 8 2010, 08:00 AM.
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| Holben | Apr 8 2010, 07:55 AM Post #53 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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So you think it would be more of a pheromone 'cloud' storing data, with very few hard copies? Perhaps certain castes could exist to back this up or process it. Sounds like the Borg to me. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Temporary | Apr 8 2010, 08:50 AM Post #54 |
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Transhuman
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We're still figuring that one out. We got the basics, which Zorku explained very well, but beyond the basic elements we are still figuring it out. From what we understand, it's a bit like our brain. Different parts deal with different tasks, but all are interconnected in a web of communication. This means that, while they all could be doing something different (some are working on tunnels, some are foraging, some are doing it with the queen) they are all still very connected via pheromones and touch, and could all instantly respond to stimulus. Sort of like you, really. You could be drumming your fingers, day dreaming about your girlfriend, and moving your feet all at once, each being dealt with by different parts of your brain, but if a wasp flies by you about an inch from your face, your entire brain will respond. Ants aren't that much different. I know you already went over it, but if you want individual ants look at the Bulldog ants of Australia. Lots of infighting with in the hive, and really not the eusocial. |
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| Practically Uninformed | Apr 8 2010, 01:11 PM Post #55 |
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Informed enough to care
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There seems to be a problem with the "brain" concept. Every once in a while, we replace almost all of our bodily cells, just like how a colony of ants could go through almost all of its individuals. Almost. The brain, the central seat of intelligence, does not have the capacity to regenerate its cells, at least at as quick a rate as in humans. If the sentient ant colony could be likened to a body, it could go 1 of 3 ways: *The "brain" ants die just like the other ants, and are replaced with ants who don't know anything their predecessors know. This would seriously handicap the ant civilization, as civilization must involve a constant progression, or at least A progression. *This is notwithstanding the possibility of the "brain" ants writing down what they know. *The "brain" ants are immortal. This is nearly impossible for multicellular organisms. *There are no "brain" ants, and instead, the intelligence is in each ant. This would be even worse than the "brain ant" concept in the first place, since possibly vital information located in an ant is constantly at stake. |
| You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper! | |
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| Holben | Apr 8 2010, 01:12 PM Post #56 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Perhaps your 'brain' ants could interface with other brain ants, imprinting their memory patterns on top? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Practically Uninformed | Apr 8 2010, 01:17 PM Post #57 |
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Informed enough to care
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Possibly. Perhaps even leaving a "will" with everything they knew, which the next generation could study. Wonder what the "brain ants" would be? A specific caste, or merely smart worker-varieties? |
| You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper! | |
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| Holben | Apr 8 2010, 01:18 PM Post #58 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Like the honeypot ant storage caste, except it is the head trhat's swollen? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Practically Uninformed | Apr 8 2010, 01:20 PM Post #59 |
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Informed enough to care
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Nah, not the head. If they're more neuron than entire brain, each one's ganglia would be quite simple, so the head might be smaller than in the rest of the caste. |
| You may be a king or a lil' street sweeper, but sooner or later, you'll dance with the reaper! | |
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| Holben | Apr 8 2010, 01:22 PM Post #60 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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...swollen thorax? They could even be made from many connected ants. When one dies, the memories are still within the superstructure. Ants could then join whenether they wanted, take info and go. Or stay there until they die, holding info. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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1:53 PM Jul 11