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The Parrotoids; What if birds beat us to the torch?
Topic Started: Feb 20 2010, 10:59 PM (1,120 Views)
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I bid you all here at Speculative Evolution Forums greetings. I've always been a fan of speculative evolution and its trappings; this is my first official attempt, so bear with me.

What if, rather than early man discovering fire and claiming the Earth his dominion, early parrot did this? What sort of strange form would this bird take, and how would its culture and history differ from humans?
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Margaret Pye
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What would it use for manipulators? Beak and feet, I suppose. Sounds a bit clumsy.

Would sapient parrots retain flight capability? That'd have interesting efects on their geography.
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The Dodo
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There wouldn't be any reason to lose flight unless their lifestyle was better suited for being flightless.
I think they would evolve from something like a Kea.
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Margaret Pye
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Keas would be one good start, but the large fruit-and-nut-eating varieties are just as intelligent.

Obvious intrinsic differences:
Unless you use a kea, it'll be pretty much herbivorous.
Oviparity - what effect does that have on their culture?
Most parrot species are very gender-neutral, and most of the rest differ only in colour.

How big do they get?
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The Dodo
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If your talking about keas, they're about 48cm long.
Something like an African grey parrot would also work, I chose keas because they were isolated from mammal competition on New Zealand.
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The Kea is a sort of carnivorous parrot, right?
I figured that the parrotoid's ancestor would be more along the lines of an Austral parakeet, only more generalized for insects and plants. Generalization is vital for sentience, but not necessarily outright omnivory.
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Holben
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Um, just a question- how do they make fire? Do they pick up rocks in their beaks and rub them against ground-based ones? If so, where do they put the kindling?

Bird brains are mainly limited by the amount of co-ordination and cortical brainpower used in flight, taking off and landing. This stops many birds from becoming curious and quick-learning, but this has become slightly more prevalent in parrots and corvids. They do seem most likely as they have larger SA brians and larger head-to-body ratios at birth.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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They probably do use that method in making fire. Use of fire would probably cause the parrotoids to stay on the ground more often to use it.
Maybe they wouldn't use fire at all. Can civilization be achieved without it?
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Holben
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Well, fire opened up crafting and smithing to humans, only primitive stone tools would be applicable without, and they'd need large and dextrous manipulators, probably two of them.

That said, on alien planets volcanic vents or something could be used.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Technically, there are 2 manipulators; the parrotoids could stand on 1 foot at a time, and they do have a beak. There would be some clumsiness involved, but just like we did, the parrotoids could sacrifice efficiency for their safety.
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sam999
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I see a large problem with fire. They are covered in fethers... which burn.
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...we are covered in fur/hair... which burns.



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Not to mention, parrots live in trees...which burn.
I'm starting to think there'd be a lot of contrast between pre-fire parrotoids and post-fire parrotoids. Those without fire would look and live much like their ancestors; ones who use fire would spend more time on the ground, and probably would have much shorter feathers.
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Margaret Pye
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Not necessarily shorter feathers. If humans can grow their hair long and avoid setting fire to it, parrots should be able to avoid setting fire to their feathers.

The point about them living in trees is more important. If you're going to start out with a tree-dwelling parrot species, I imagine their environment-altering activities would involve planting trees, not destroying them. On the other hand, keas are ground-dwelling (they're omnivores, not carnivores: but yes, they do eat red meat, and it's not all scavenged) and the fairly generalist Australian galah feeds on the ground. I think both nest in tree hollows, but a sophont could presumably substitute burrows.

And is fire really necessary for civilisation? Sure, cooking your food allows gut reduction, but why does civilisation require reduced guts? Metal obviously isn't necessary for culture, and it isn't even necessary for complex civilisation - look what the Aztecs managed without it.

Sulphur-crested cockatoos, Cacatua galerita, would work. Or maybe one of the big macaws?
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Carlos
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Quote:
 
And is fire really necessary for civilisation? Sure, cooking your food allows gut reduction, but why does civilisation require reduced guts? Metal obviously isn't necessary for culture, and it isn't even necessary for complex civilisation - look what the Aztecs managed without it.


Its important because fireplaces allow communication spots where individuals concentrate. However, there could easily be a replacement; parrots often gather to consume clay to neutralize the poison of th fruits they ingest, and so a mostly frugivorous species could benefit from this instead of making fireplaces
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