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Venus (A habitable planet with life); The obvious best chance of finding E.T.
Topic Started: Feb 8 2010, 02:04 PM (2,363 Views)
Googolbyte
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___I am surprised that life on Venus has not been considered on this forum for Extraterrestrial life especially considering the fact that aerial ecosystems have been discussed on this forum. Consider these facts;

___In many ways Venus is the hell planet. Results of spacecraft investigation of the surface and atmosphere of Venus are summarized by Bougher, Hunten, and Phillips [ 19971:
______#Surface temperature 735K: lead, tin, and zinc melt at surface, with hot spots with temperatures in excess of 975 K
______#Atmospheric pressure 96 Bar (1300 PSI); similar to pressure at a depth of a kilometer under the ocean
______#The surface is cloud covered; little or no solar energy
______#Poisonous atmosphere of primarily carbon dioxide, with nitrogen and clouds of sulphuric acid droplets.

___However, viewed in a different way, the problem with Venus is merely that the ground level is too far below the one atmosphere level. At cloud top level, Venus is the paradise planet. As shown in figure 2, at an altitude slightly above fifty km above the surface, the atmospheric pressure is equal to the Earth surface atmospheric pressure of I Bar. At this level, the environment of Venus is benign.
______#above the clouds, there is abundant solar energy
______#temperature is in the habitable "liquid water" range of 0-5 C
______#atmosphere contains the primary volatiles required for life (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Sulfur)
______#Gravity is 90% of the gravity at the surface of Earth.

___While the atmosphere contains droplets of sulfuric acid, technology to avoid acid corrosion are well known, and have been used by chemists for centuries.

___In short, the atmosphere of Venus is most earthlike environment in the solar system. Although humans cannot breathe the atmosphere, pressure vessels are not required to maintain one atmosphere of habitat pressure, and pressure suits are not required for humans outside the habitat.

___Instead if we assume that Venus was originally earth-like (at the surface) and slowly transitioned to Venus' current form allowing the life to take to the sky permanently. This wouldn't be difficult as hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen are all lifting gases on Venus which are also biologically common. The only difficulty would be locating a source of heavier elements such as silicon, iron and phosphorous. Any suggestions?

Note: contains extracts from http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030022668_2003025525.pdf
Edited by Googolbyte, Feb 8 2010, 02:06 PM.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

They use H2SO4 instead of water for reactions and enzymes, and possibly DNA suspension. If water gets in, however, the recations which acid is famous for begin. Hydrolysis will kill the organism. So it must shield itself from water.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Empyreon
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Are you plausible?

Quote:
 
If water gets in, however, the recations which acid is famous for begin.

Famous? I don't understand.
Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus!

COM Contributions


food for thought
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

The acid dissolves up the organic matter as is portrayed in poular culture.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Iowanic
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Sorry to interupt but:

Recommended reading; "Venus Revealed" by Grinspoon.

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Having just searched it, it appears to be about the planet's past and how it is a solution to our problems.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Iowanic
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It contains a lot of info; including a chapter on the possibility of life there. I personally liked the info on future-exploration on Venus.

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

I'm not sure how a station could survive on Venus, but the future will hold many surprises.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Googolbyte
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Holbenilord
Feb 18 2010, 05:54 AM
I'm not sure how a station could survive on Venus, but the future will hold many surprises.
A station on/in a balloon would be safe from the heat and there are materials that could be used as a protective shield against the acidic conditions for the station such as glass.
Another advantages is if carbon nanotubes become viable construction materials then there is plenty of carbon dioxide to make it from.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

True, i hadn't thought of nanotubes. But what about fibreglass? Would that be used? And What kind of sealants or glue would they use?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Iowanic
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Elmer's glue.
It can withstand anything. And it's very tasty.

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T.Neo
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Actually, Venusian cloud tops are the most human habitable location in the solar system, after Earth's surface.

Temperatures are Earthlike (ranging from 0 to 50C) and pressure is more or less identical to pressure at Terran sea level. Gravity is only slightly less then on Earth, so problems of reproduction and bodily degeneration would be mostly eliminated, and most cosmic and stellar radiation would be filtered out by the atmoshere. All you would need is breathable air and protection from the sulphuric acid.

What is more- breathable air is actually a lifting gas in the primarily CO2 Venusian atmosphere, so inflatable habitats would be able to float on their own, with extra assistance provided by external balloons or a percentage of helium in the breathing air if required.

Solar energy is also abundant, and the rotation cycle of the clouds (at around 5 days, AFAIK) is mild compared to bodies such as the Moon.

The only problem I can see is the gravity well of Venus, and the atmosphere that launching craft have to be propelled through.

Edited by T.Neo, Feb 20 2010, 02:46 PM.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Googolbyte
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T.Neo
Feb 20 2010, 02:45 PM
Actually, Venusian cloud tops are the most human habitable location in the solar system, after Earth's surface.

Temperatures are Earthlike (ranging from 0 to 50C) and pressure is more or less identical to pressure at Terran sea level. Gravity is only slightly less then on Earth, so problems of reproduction and bodily degeneration would be mostly eliminated, and most cosmic and stellar radiation would be filtered out by the atmoshere. All you would need is breathable air and protection from the sulphuric acid.

What is more- breathable air is actually a lifting gas in the primarily CO2 Venusian atmosphere, so inflatable habitats would be able to float on their own, with extra assistance provided by external balloons or a percentage of helium in the breathing air if required.

Solar energy is also abundant, and the rotation cycle of the clouds (at around 5 days, AFAIK) is mild compared to bodies such as the Moon.

The only problem I can see is the gravity well of Venus, and the atmosphere that launching craft have to be propelled through.

Finally someone seem to understand fully.
That is more or less what I meant to say in my original posts though I hadn't mentioned the problem of space travel from Venus.
It is also in my understanding that the rotation cycle of the cloud can be as little as 3 days,
this also means that creating artificial night at midday and artificial day at midnight would create a normal day night cycle.
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