| Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web. While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous. Join our community today! |
| Venus (A habitable planet with life); The obvious best chance of finding E.T. | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Feb 8 2010, 02:04 PM (2,365 Views) | |
| Googolbyte | Feb 8 2010, 02:04 PM Post #1 |
|
Zygote
![]()
|
___I am surprised that life on Venus has not been considered on this forum for Extraterrestrial life especially considering the fact that aerial ecosystems have been discussed on this forum. Consider these facts; ___In many ways Venus is the hell planet. Results of spacecraft investigation of the surface and atmosphere of Venus are summarized by Bougher, Hunten, and Phillips [ 19971: ______#Surface temperature 735K: lead, tin, and zinc melt at surface, with hot spots with temperatures in excess of 975 K ______#Atmospheric pressure 96 Bar (1300 PSI); similar to pressure at a depth of a kilometer under the ocean ______#The surface is cloud covered; little or no solar energy ______#Poisonous atmosphere of primarily carbon dioxide, with nitrogen and clouds of sulphuric acid droplets. ___However, viewed in a different way, the problem with Venus is merely that the ground level is too far below the one atmosphere level. At cloud top level, Venus is the paradise planet. As shown in figure 2, at an altitude slightly above fifty km above the surface, the atmospheric pressure is equal to the Earth surface atmospheric pressure of I Bar. At this level, the environment of Venus is benign. ______#above the clouds, there is abundant solar energy ______#temperature is in the habitable "liquid water" range of 0-5 C ______#atmosphere contains the primary volatiles required for life (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Sulfur) ______#Gravity is 90% of the gravity at the surface of Earth. ___While the atmosphere contains droplets of sulfuric acid, technology to avoid acid corrosion are well known, and have been used by chemists for centuries. ___In short, the atmosphere of Venus is most earthlike environment in the solar system. Although humans cannot breathe the atmosphere, pressure vessels are not required to maintain one atmosphere of habitat pressure, and pressure suits are not required for humans outside the habitat. ___Instead if we assume that Venus was originally earth-like (at the surface) and slowly transitioned to Venus' current form allowing the life to take to the sky permanently. This wouldn't be difficult as hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen are all lifting gases on Venus which are also biologically common. The only difficulty would be locating a source of heavier elements such as silicon, iron and phosphorous. Any suggestions? Note: contains extracts from http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030022668_2003025525.pdf Edited by Googolbyte, Feb 8 2010, 02:06 PM.
|
![]() |
|
| Replies: | |
|---|---|
| Googolbyte | Feb 12 2010, 03:37 PM Post #31 |
|
Zygote
![]()
|
I just remember considering this scenario if intelligent life were to arise in the clouds of Venus, they would be unable to produce any significant technology due to there lack of building materials or for that matter anything physical at all other than other organic life forms. This raise the possibility that beings of vastly superior intelligence have arisen on Venus without said beings being able to have a noticeable affect on Venus (from the perspective of earth on the visible, radio or any other manner of detection), this taking in consideration that reports of light on the dark side of Venus are indeed false. |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 12 2010, 03:39 PM Post #32 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
If you want 'em up there, perhaps they could live in bubbles, with small, volatile gases functioning to carry nutrients from the atmosphere?
Edited by Holben, Feb 12 2010, 03:39 PM.
|
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| colddigger | Feb 12 2010, 09:10 PM Post #33 |
|
Joke's over! Love, Parasky
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
well considering we use copper and iron material for our tools while living in a very corrosive environment, full of water and oxygen, i don't think it would be too difficult for a venusian to make tools... they would just be very short lived items. |
|
Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
![]() |
|
| T.Neo | Feb 13 2010, 04:10 AM Post #34 |
![]()
Translunar injection: TLI
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That might be possible, but with no ground there wouldn't be much to develop tools with. And why exactly is sulfuric acid universally lethal to life? Maybe they thrive on the stuff, like bacteria living in boiling volcanic pools... Edited by T.Neo, Feb 13 2010, 04:10 AM.
|
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 13 2010, 04:17 AM Post #35 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
As i said earlier, acids are fine so longer as there is no water. TWith water, a reaction called hydrolysis begins which rips the molecules up. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Yorick | Feb 15 2010, 05:16 PM Post #36 |
|
Adult
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Say it's two or three centuries in the future and mankind decided to terraform Venus. This day/night cycle is very troublesome for us. How could we go about actually speeding up Venus' rotation on its own axis to get a much smaller day/night cycle-like 24 hours? What would we have to invent? Edited by Yorick, Feb 17 2010, 04:51 PM.
|
|
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger" -The Dark Knight (2008) | |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 16 2010, 10:58 AM Post #37 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
We could tip it with a few impacts, or make it a passing acquantance with a mini black hole. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Canis Lupis | Feb 16 2010, 11:11 AM Post #38 |
![]()
Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
![]()
|
Why would the day/night cycle be a problem anyway? Humans do make a living in Alaska where they have 24 hours of sunlight for almost half the year and 24 hours of darkness for the other half. We're (and this is hypocritical on my part) a resilient species. We're very adaptable and we can get used to this day/night cycle easily. |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 16 2010, 11:13 AM Post #39 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
Jet lag and oversleeping? I can't say i'm very adaptable on the time to sleep part. But that doesn't stop people and creatures getting used to it. Plants may have a little more trouble. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Canis Lupis | Feb 16 2010, 11:16 AM Post #40 |
![]()
Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
![]()
|
Yeah, plants will be the hardest hit. Maybe, if it is possible, we could GM their behavior so they'd be more used to it? |
![]() |
|
| T.Neo | Feb 16 2010, 11:17 AM Post #41 |
![]()
Translunar injection: TLI
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
I suppose we could crush up some anonymous little outer system moon into cometary fragments, and throw it at Venus, which will take a VERY long time. Once you have that engineering impossibility sorted out, you're going to have to remove the damn thick atmosphere. The fragments might have blown it away, but molten rock from the impacts probably outgassed and simply replaced it. Oh, and the planet is probably molten now due to all those high-energy impacts... Right, now the planet has an acceptable spin and most of that nasty CO2 is gone (and the global magma ocean has cooled off a bit). But it has no water to speak of- it's a baking desert. This is more water to import from the outer system. Unless you've magically transmuted the atmosphere into carbon and water. But you would still need a very large amount of H2 from the outer system... You'll probably also need some sort of sunshade to cool the planet down (and light up the nightside- even with all that bombardment you'll still get a relatively slow rotation). Rings of reflective material (aluminium foil?) would probably be the most plausible, but again, the particles would need to be made and shipped. So, long story short, folks, don't terraform Venus. Try it with Mars- we might be able to do it in less then a thousand years, with current knowledge and near-current technology. But Venus is generally impossible if you don't have super technology and infrastructure. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 16 2010, 11:25 AM Post #42 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
Super technology. It's only a matter of time- but yes, terraforming a hell planet seems pointless. Terraform a planet lacking in substance if you have to. But this isn't the topic! Plants can be Gmed to open at the touch of light on 'trigger leaves', perhaps? |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Empyreon | Feb 17 2010, 04:14 PM Post #43 |
|
Are you plausible?
![]()
|
So is there anything that could live on Venus unterraformed? |
|
Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
| |
![]() |
|
| Holben | Feb 17 2010, 04:31 PM Post #44 |
![]()
Rumbo a la Victoria
![]()
|
Sulphur bugs in the clouds, but that's pretty much it. |
|
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
![]() |
|
| Empyreon | Feb 17 2010, 04:32 PM Post #45 |
|
Are you plausible?
![]()
|
Sulphur bugs, that sounds interesting. How do they work? |
|
Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
| |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The Habitable Zone · Next Topic » |















9:33 AM Jul 11