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| Venus (A habitable planet with life); The obvious best chance of finding E.T. | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 8 2010, 02:04 PM (2,362 Views) | |
| Googolbyte | Feb 8 2010, 02:04 PM Post #1 |
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Zygote
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___I am surprised that life on Venus has not been considered on this forum for Extraterrestrial life especially considering the fact that aerial ecosystems have been discussed on this forum. Consider these facts; ___In many ways Venus is the hell planet. Results of spacecraft investigation of the surface and atmosphere of Venus are summarized by Bougher, Hunten, and Phillips [ 19971: ______#Surface temperature 735K: lead, tin, and zinc melt at surface, with hot spots with temperatures in excess of 975 K ______#Atmospheric pressure 96 Bar (1300 PSI); similar to pressure at a depth of a kilometer under the ocean ______#The surface is cloud covered; little or no solar energy ______#Poisonous atmosphere of primarily carbon dioxide, with nitrogen and clouds of sulphuric acid droplets. ___However, viewed in a different way, the problem with Venus is merely that the ground level is too far below the one atmosphere level. At cloud top level, Venus is the paradise planet. As shown in figure 2, at an altitude slightly above fifty km above the surface, the atmospheric pressure is equal to the Earth surface atmospheric pressure of I Bar. At this level, the environment of Venus is benign. ______#above the clouds, there is abundant solar energy ______#temperature is in the habitable "liquid water" range of 0-5 C ______#atmosphere contains the primary volatiles required for life (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, and Sulfur) ______#Gravity is 90% of the gravity at the surface of Earth. ___While the atmosphere contains droplets of sulfuric acid, technology to avoid acid corrosion are well known, and have been used by chemists for centuries. ___In short, the atmosphere of Venus is most earthlike environment in the solar system. Although humans cannot breathe the atmosphere, pressure vessels are not required to maintain one atmosphere of habitat pressure, and pressure suits are not required for humans outside the habitat. ___Instead if we assume that Venus was originally earth-like (at the surface) and slowly transitioned to Venus' current form allowing the life to take to the sky permanently. This wouldn't be difficult as hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen are all lifting gases on Venus which are also biologically common. The only difficulty would be locating a source of heavier elements such as silicon, iron and phosphorous. Any suggestions? Note: contains extracts from http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20030022668_2003025525.pdf Edited by Googolbyte, Feb 8 2010, 02:06 PM.
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| Scrublord | Feb 8 2010, 04:22 PM Post #2 |
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Father Pellegrini
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You're right! Now what we need to do is to send a probe, maybe a balloon of some sort, to explore that region of the planet. |
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My Projects: The Neozoic Redux Valhalla--Take Three! The Big One Deviantart Account: http://elsqiubbonator.deviantart.com In the end, the best advice I could give you would be to do your project in a way that feels natural to you, rather than trying to imitate some geek with a laptop in Colorado. --Heteromorph | |
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| Ànraich | Feb 8 2010, 06:25 PM Post #3 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Well if there is a large temperature difference between the day and night sides of Venus then there would be powerful winds, and with powerful winds comes weathering. The wind could potentially carry minerals into the air, in fact I'm sure it does. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| Xenophile | Feb 8 2010, 11:14 PM Post #4 |
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Formerly known as alienboy.
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Hey, welcome! It's always great to get a new member. Although single cellular life could definatly be floating in the atomosphere of Venus, I still believe the best place in the solar system to search for multicellular life is on Europa. Microbes are nice, but the idea of macroscopic alien life is even better. As an added bonus for my argument, Europa has liquid water! |
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| Vultur-10 | Feb 9 2010, 01:12 AM Post #5 |
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Enceladus probably has a subsurface liquid water ocean too. Other ice moons may as well. Europa is closer, however... |
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| ATEK Azul | Feb 9 2010, 02:40 PM Post #6 |
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Transhuman
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Wow this presents a solid argument for life on Venus even Multicellular life. Though it would be hard I think it's possible and hope to see this thread go somewhere. I do have 1 issue though and that is the recycling of dead organics I mean how will life feed on itself if bodies fall out of the planetary habitable zone. Do scavengers fly under herds of flying organisms waiting for them to die so they can eat as much as possible before the body is out of the habitable zone? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| T.Neo | Feb 9 2010, 02:43 PM Post #7 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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Moving slightly off-topic here, but has anyone ever considered Earth for the potential of multicellular life in the solar system?
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| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Canis Lupis | Feb 9 2010, 03:35 PM Post #8 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Yes, Venus is likely for life. In fact, in my early (like around age eleven) days as a speculative biologist, I conceived a sentient being called a Birjaculan, a native of Venus's atmosphere. Basically, a gas bag-like tetrapod. Not plausible, considering conditions on Venus, but still my first forray into exobiology. Single celled life (and possibly a floating kind of "algae") seem to be the only creatures able to exist on Venus. Europa does seem a likely place as well. In fact, I'm almost 90% positive it has life. Titan is another candidate. Though you will most likely only get ethanol-eating bacteria, that would still be life. I know I may come out sounding like a quack, but I'd like to put Mars on the chopping block. We know Mars had liquid oceans about three billion years ago. Perhaps, like on Earth, Mars had bacterial life just begining to form colonies. When Mars lost its magnetosphere, perhaps the Martian bacteria migrated to below the surface to protect itself from the conditions of space. Perhaps the bacterial colonies carved huge megacaverns and created massive biospheres filled with methane gas, and perhaps some oxygen. Over time (possibly 700 million years ago), an ediacaran-like lifeform would evolve to graze on these vast bacterial mats. Admittedly, evolution would be extremely slow on Mars, considering a lack in plate tectonics and in evolutionary pressures, but it would still be possible. Though it would be on the less likely end of the scale (I'm 60%% certain there is some form of life on Mars, but only 20% sure that there is some form of multicellular life). |
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| TheBioBassist | Feb 9 2010, 06:09 PM Post #9 |
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Naked Man (who fears no pick pockets)
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Lets not rule out the possibility of life existing even lower in the atmosphere. Sure conditions here would become far from earth like but that doesn't mean they are uninhabitable. I was just doing some reading on Venus and turns out an area called the Aphrodite Terra Highlands could be covered in pyrite (fools gold). Here you would expect the heavy hot winds at the surface to weather the rocks and bring its nutrients skyward. Then you could have microorganisms that feed on it using solar energy gained from above. As it is quite easy to float in the thick atmosphere I could envision macro scale life that would feed on these organisms. However a big hurdle would be dealing with the 243 day long day/night cycle. |
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"The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not "eureka" ( I found it) but "that's funny......"" -Isaac Asimov | |
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| sam999 | Feb 9 2010, 06:59 PM Post #10 |
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Adult
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Interesting to think what such life might be like... |
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.![]() ![]() ![]() Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please... | |
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| Holben | Feb 10 2010, 05:24 AM Post #11 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Enzymes. How would you get enzymes to work over there? I understand there was speculation on acid-filled bugs, but then even a drop of water would initiate hydrolysis and dissolve them. They would have to be totoally sealed off, and very small- monocellular. Water based life would initiate hydrolysis due to the intense acid in the clouds and rain. The water would also evaporate etc. Pressure and large amounts of carbon dioxide also limit size. Algae seem most likely, but they'd have to be high up owing to the thickness of the atmnosphere, or use chemical synthesis. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Googolbyte | Feb 10 2010, 01:24 PM Post #12 |
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Zygote
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Well, silicon based life forms on Venus could be an interesting possibility due to the abundance of sulphuric acid and lack of oxygen. This would allow life lower in the atmosphere. Another interesting possibility is the a notable use of chlorine in Venus biochemistry. I say this as Russian probes detected chlorine clouds and kitt peak national observatory has also detected the signature of chlorine gas. |
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| Googolbyte | Feb 10 2010, 01:32 PM Post #13 |
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Zygote
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This all assume that life on Venus would be carbon-based water-soluble life that photosynthesises using visible light. If we instead considering (at least partially) silicon-based sulphuric acid using life that photosynthesises UV or other spectrum light we have a very different that may even be able to survive sort periods of time on the surface of Venus. |
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| Googolbyte | Feb 10 2010, 01:37 PM Post #14 |
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Zygote
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243 day long night cycle wouldn't be a problem air-borne balloon creature could easily be blown around the planet by strong winds on Venus in the period of 3 days (72 hours), factorising in the ability to swing round the Polar regions, life on Venus would have a good degree of control over the length of the day/night cycle. |
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| Googolbyte | Feb 10 2010, 01:52 PM Post #15 |
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Zygote
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You seem to believe that dead living things on Venus would float down to the surface, but in all likelihood gas bladders would be distributed throughout the creatures form and only auxiliary gas bladders would be adjustable. This is likely as sleeping creatures would otherwise die if this wasn't true and as such it is likely that the dead would also just drift through Venus' atmosphere until being devoured. This also gives rise to the possibility of floating rocks and islands as coral analogies would fill the sky formed from gas bladder bearing microscopic creatures that have formed the rock around them, these Sky-islands would drift through the atmosphere amalgamating with others forming larger and larger form possible able to carry entire forests and ecosystems even long after the original coral creator have died and left behind the lifting gas filled cavities. |
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