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K-T to the present.; Do Mammals need cosmic intervention?
Topic Started: Dec 28 2009, 04:49 PM (2,507 Views)
ATEK Azul
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This topic while not a project is for the discussion of a scenario where the Meteor missed and the Dinosaurs survived farther than 65 million years ago.

I know you've heard this scenario a bunch, but heres the twist the point of this topic is to have a world where Mammals realisticly out compete the Dinosaurs by the present day without celestial impacts or sapient species.

Other than the normal restrictions of Mammal evolution like the Amount of vertebrae they can have, there are no restrictions.

Also I'm not posting the things I have thought up until the Topic gets some posts so if you want my ideas, please post comments, questions and contributions.

Also have a nice descussion!
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Holben
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No! Mammals are the most adaptable and third-greatest kingdom on Earth. They can evolve to suit all niches (well, most) and could outcompete the mesozoic natives in all lower nhiches. I'm just not sure about the crown of 'ultimate predator', the carnivores might produce a rival to the theropds- but carnivora arose in the Eocene.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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T.Neo
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Actually, on the astronomical scale, planets are so small they are almost nothing.


On a biological scale they are pretty big though.

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2nd: I know those might be some what large but inbetween Desert and Rain forest your going to have some less than predictable weather and at that time Grass hadn't taken over meaning all they have to eat are Cacti and Ferns which don't sound very supportive of super herbivores.


Super herbivores in the Mesozoic ate ferns...

And no, of course not all of the "non-desert" regions will be deserts themselves... some will be semidesert, prairie, open forest etc.

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Alright I guess i must accept this since every body else seems to agree that Mammals are weak pathetic animals with no futures if something else is already there(it just doesn't seem right) unless a mass extinct of K-T or higher proportions hit the planet.


Actually no. Mammals flourished during the Mesozoic, and they'd flourish in a non-KT Cenozoic. They just wouldn't take up megafaunal roles.

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Mammals are the most adaptable and third-greatest kingdom on Earth.


Mammalia isn't a kingdom. It is (AFAIK) a class.

Dinosaurs were and are damn adaptable too. At present dinosaurs (birds) account for the most amniote species on the planet.

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and could outcompete the mesozoic natives in all lower nhiches.


If this is so, why didn't they do so in the Mesozoic?

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I'm just not sure about the crown of 'ultimate predator', the carnivores might produce a rival to the theropds- but carnivora arose in the Eocene.


Carnivorous mammals would be too busy trying not to be eaten themselves. ;)

Theropods (especially maniraptors etc) were very intelligent and adaptable creatures. I don't see their prey overcompeting them in their niche.
Edited by T.Neo, Jan 16 2010, 02:23 PM.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Holben
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So, that's were i see difficulties. 12m tigers, anyone?

At the end of the mesozoic, mammals had all the scavenger niches (pretty much), many insectivorous and nocturnal niches, egg-snatching niches, etc. etc.

Sorry! Mammalia isn't a kingdom. But in cladistics, we sort out mammalia as a really big group, so i keep thinking 'kingdom'.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Carlos
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You guys know crocodillians, of all things, produced terrestrial, dinosaur eating machines in the Cretaceous, right?

Well, why not mammals?
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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T.Neo
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Crocodillians aren't mammals.

And even then, I doubt they'd be dominant. It isn't like crocodillians outcompeted carnivorous dinosaurs.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Holben
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The herbivorous ones, which JohnFaa mentioned, certainly did a good job. But then again, hadrosaurs and ceratopsians and ankylosaurs (including nodosaurs) were all that was left in most continents.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Carlos
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Crocodilians and mammals wer eboth competing with each other, and since terrestrial crocodiles had a higher metabolism than modern ones they were certainly very similar. Only herbivorous dinosaurs would pose significant competition thanks to chewing habits, because meat eating crocodillians and mammals did reached large proportions in the Mesozoic
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Maybe a pristichampsus- like predator could challenge the tyrannosaurids, who would be shrinking anyway.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Margaret Pye
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Wouldn't the pterosaurs go extinct anyway? Pterosaurs seem to have been on their way out by KT, except maybe the azdarchids.
My speculative dinosaur project. With lots of fluff, parental care and mammalian-level intelligence, and the odd sophont.
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Carlos
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Find some posts I made in this site where it explains why pterosaurs weren't declining
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Holben
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You didn't say pterosaurs were declining, did you? JohnFaa just stoipped liking you.

Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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