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| K-T to the present.; Do Mammals need cosmic intervention? | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 28 2009, 04:49 PM (2,510 Views) | |
| ATEK Azul | Dec 28 2009, 04:49 PM Post #1 |
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Transhuman
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This topic while not a project is for the discussion of a scenario where the Meteor missed and the Dinosaurs survived farther than 65 million years ago. I know you've heard this scenario a bunch, but heres the twist the point of this topic is to have a world where Mammals realisticly out compete the Dinosaurs by the present day without celestial impacts or sapient species. Other than the normal restrictions of Mammal evolution like the Amount of vertebrae they can have, there are no restrictions. Also I'm not posting the things I have thought up until the Topic gets some posts so if you want my ideas, please post comments, questions and contributions. Also have a nice descussion! |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Ddraig Goch | Jan 6 2010, 10:02 AM Post #46 |
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Ar hyd y nos
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DAMN YOU BBC!!! |
| Save the Blibbering Humdinger from extinction! | |
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| Carlos | Jan 6 2010, 01:10 PM Post #47 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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No, Megatherium was a forest dwelling animal bitches!
Hadrosaurs turned out as being grazers; while they could theorically take a role in causing forests to form at a slower rate, chances are forests would form anyway, as Paleocene North America went through desertification before forests formed. Bisons also aren't the sole factor regarding grasslands; interior North America has a continental temperate climate, adding to the presence of a drier condition. Also a lot of North America's landmass was covered by forests |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Holben | Jan 6 2010, 02:40 PM Post #48 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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It was?
-wikipedia
-wikipedia
-wikipedia I sum this up as- it lived in woodland and grassland, but the woodland wasn't as dense as it was before. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Carlos | Jan 6 2010, 03:48 PM Post #49 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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It lived in forests; only because rainforests were declining doesn't mean woodlands in general were. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Holben | Jan 7 2010, 11:59 AM Post #50 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Alright. So, are we gonna talk about speculative life-forms? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Ddraig Goch | Jan 8 2010, 11:45 AM Post #51 |
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Ar hyd y nos
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Yes, although it's up to ATEK Azul to approve them, as this is his "project". |
| Save the Blibbering Humdinger from extinction! | |
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| ATEK Azul | Jan 8 2010, 12:45 PM Post #52 |
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Transhuman
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Sorry I have been watching but I'm busy. I like that this is still alive but I wanted to say this is for general discussion of this scenario and not a real project like you might be thinking. Basicly I posted this here for every body to discuss an alternative to Dinosaurs ruling the Earth in a world without the K-T extinction. If my first post contradicts this post then I must have been thinking differently at the time. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Holben | Jan 8 2010, 01:09 PM Post #53 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Alright. So we've decided to keep hadrosaurs and marine reptiles in the tropics, and crocs as terrestrials. Pterosaurs have a lot of the sky niches. Any other archosaurs? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Carlos | Jan 8 2010, 05:01 PM Post #54 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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By the late Cretaceous only pterosaurs, crocodillians and dinosaurs were living archosaurs. Choristoderes could had been archosaurs too, but its unknown |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| T.Neo | Jan 12 2010, 01:09 PM Post #55 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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I'm sorry but I just don't see mammals outcompeting dinosaurs this way. Perhaps some herbivorous mammals at high latitudes but not much more then that. Dinosaurs were just a far too widespread and diverse group. They were also extremely adaptable. I do NOT see the various coelurosaur groups dying out. Or Hadrosaurs, or ceratopsians. And abeliosaurs and sauropods would probably have been fine too. It seems from fossil evidence in Alaska and Antarctica that dinosaurs could withstand cold temperatures rather well, albeit through migration for the larger specimens. Smaller ones could certainly survive the cold. It has been suggested that feathers and filamentous structures on pterosaurs evolved from a common ancestor. If this is a case, it somewhat prooves that all dinosaurs had the ability for endothermy and makes the existence of shaggy ice-age hardosaurs a possibility. As for forests during the PETM being a contributing factor towards reduction of size, I don't buy it. Forests don't shrink large animals or make them extinct, and even if larger forms wouldn't be able to cope with restricted conditions they could always seek out clearer areas or even produce them themselves. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Holben | Jan 12 2010, 04:18 PM Post #56 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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In the Eocene, all but what is now tundra was dense rainforest. The sauropods in forests, and not even too dense ones, had to clear large areas to roam and feed, then moving on. The sheer amount of energy involved makes this unlikely in rainforest. The humidity as well could have a bad effect on dinosaur size. Ice caps would certainly smash a hole. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| T.Neo | Jan 12 2010, 04:43 PM Post #57 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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That still leaves some space for the sauropods.
Yes, but the sauropods do get a meal out of it.
Why? Something to do with their respiratory systems? Birds don't have a problem with humidity, last time I checked.
Ice caps smash a hole in everything. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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| Carlos | Jan 12 2010, 05:57 PM Post #58 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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I can see hadrosaurs surviving Eocene forests, but not sauropods. Titanosaurs are only found in open ecosystems in the late Cretaceous, and mostly were montane animals; surely they could not survive when angiopserm dominated rainforests covered the whole earth. Most likely the fact they lacked fingers made locomotion in such habitats hard. Coming to think of it, advanced hadrosaurs also lacked fingers, but probably could adapt to forest environments |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Holben | Jan 13 2010, 06:45 AM Post #59 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Maybe some maniraptorans could take forest-scavenger niche? I agree that sauropods wouldn't survive the eocene. Qhere you speculating the tundra could be their habitat? Well, too cold, too sparse, and too far from their ranges pre-tertiary. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| T.Neo | Jan 13 2010, 08:23 AM Post #60 |
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Translunar injection: TLI
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They would migrate. |
| A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork. | |
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7:18 PM Jul 10