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The Moon, Pandora, from the film "Avatar"
Topic Started: Dec 20 2009, 02:13 PM (8,071 Views)
Yorick
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I took someone's suggestion and created another topic to speculate on the moon's inhabitants' evolution.

So...speculate!
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

-The Dark Knight (2008)
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Empyreon
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Are you plausible?

I notice that the thanator has quill-like structures on the sides of its head, perhaps the female (or male if the one in the movie is a female) has not quills but feathers. I also seem to remember the hammerhead titanotheres displaying a fan of colorful feathery shapes when doing their threat display. Could these be a source of feathers?
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food for thought
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lamna
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Possibly, I did not notice those. I'll have to have a look at them.
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

I doubt the Na'vi used the quills on the side of the thanator's head. Na'vi, according to Pandorapedia, are extremely frightened of the thanator. So much so that they do not honor it in any song or dance.

So most likely, it is one of those titanotheres. Or something completely different.




You know, maybe we ought to try to speculate on what creatures could exist on Pandora, besides the ones shown in the movie.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Well, think of the variety on earth. There are about twenty species named, and Pandora is quite close to earth in size... closer than the moon, anyway. So, 9,000 mammal species on earth, about 6,000 of the quasi-reptile analogue things? Microbes, detrivores and small animals weren't really catered for either.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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T.Neo
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I haven't watched the film, but:

The Na'vi make no sense evolutionarily. They're far too similar to humans, and they break they bauplan used by the majority of animals around them. I can take limb fusion as a remote possibility, but I doubt it could happen that way in reality.

I think a far more plausible method would be for them to have a pair of atrophied limbs on their chests or abdomens, like District 9's prawns.

The other animals look acceptable (I've heard Wayne Barlow was involved in their design process, so no wonder), but there are inaccuracies here and there. IMO the evolution of psionic "antennae" that can plug into other organisms make no sense evolutionarily.

Other then that, the Avatar program and the floating mountains/"unobtainium", Avatar looks reasonably "hard-ish" as sci-fi goes, although I don't see why the hell you'd have a mech carry a firearm instead of have built-in ones.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

But the director said he wanted heroes the audience could 'connect' with, ie. humanoids.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Ddraig Goch
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Ar hyd y nos

If we are going to create other Pandoran lifeforms, then it is worth noting that, apparently, all flying species, including the Banshee, and the Leonopteryx, are supposedly evolved from sea-creatures, due to their fish-like jaw structures.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

How about exoskeleton-clad life-forms? They could have evolved from detritovores in the sea.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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lamna
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Well that would make the Mechas more versatile. If you run out of ammunition and need to advance to future victory (run away) it helps you don't have to carry a gun. Plus you can improvise weapons and they can be used for things other than combat. Can't lift a fallen tree out the way with a gun.

And as I have said it make most sense assuming the Na'vi once were advanced and tweaked themselves and the world.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Ànraich
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Cynovolans
Jan 1 2010, 11:24 PM
But I want to see an animal on Pandora that has a different type of nervous system, maybe something similar to cephalopods or jelly fish.
There's something called the Medusa-Aerocoelenterates, commonly called Medusa (Aerocnidaria aerae). It's kind of like a giant, predatory sky-jellyfish that hovers about and dangles tentacles into the undergrowth of the forests. Whenever something brushes against these tentacles they automatically wrap around it with a vice-like grip and send a pulse of electricity from a specialized organ to subdue/kill the prey. It doesn't appear to have the linking abilities of other animals, but I'm not sure whether that's because it has a more primitive nervous system or because it has specialized that part of its nervous system to conduct electricity for hunting uses. Anyways it hunts things as large as hexapedes and has been known to hunt banshees, which I guess is pretty impressive for something so fragile.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Ànraich
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lamna
Jan 2 2010, 05:44 AM
Indeed, all we get is a rainforest and a glimpse of the plains and the seaside. I read the planet has no landmasses encircling or on the poles, and so has no real ice caps.

Also, I wonder where the Na'vi get the fletching for their arrows? I did not see a single feathered creature in the film.
No, it has ice caps. But they're not connected to any landmasses, so they're free-floating.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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agatharights
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For the record, everybody here should take a gander at the story it's originally based on, Project 880, where they're not trying to get unobtanium but rather selectively breed the Na'vi with avatar bodies into an easily controlled race for cheap labor.
http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html

Take a gander. I'm kind of sad THAT wasn't the movie, even though it would have made for a like...five-hour-long movie.
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

I posted the link on here, but no one took notice.

It is interesting.
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lamna
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I'll have another look at it, and from what I have read about it it sounds good, if long. I've got monster based harem mangas to read people, the whole thing will take too long.

Maybe someone should turn it into a novel?
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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T.Neo
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But the director said he wanted heroes the audience could 'connect' with, ie. humanoids.


If you've ever had a dog or a cat, you'll know that a creature doesn't have to be humanoid for someone to "connect" with it. ;)

I can understand the "human-ness" of the Na'vi would be integral to the plot, but not to the audience relating to them.

IMO, the Prawns pulled off being humanoid (and thus relatable) without looking too much like humans. To me, they seemed to be plausible as creatures that converged a humanoid bodyplan, instead of essentially being deformed humans.


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Well that would make the Mechas more versatile. If you run out of ammunition and need to advance to future victory (run away) it helps you don't have to carry a gun. Plus you can improvise weapons and they can be used for things other than combat. Can't lift a fallen tree out the way with a gun.


Well, you'd have guns on the arms, as well as hands ("claws" work too, like those found on DSVs). If you run out of ammo, extend the arms or jettison the guns.

If you did have a detachable weapon, you wouldn't do it in the same way. It would make much more sense to "lock" the gun in place via some sort of mechanical system then daintily hold it with the manipulators, and a pull-trigger is just stupid (large, moving part that adds to the list of things that can break). It also makes little sense to carry the weapon using both manipulators, as it would be advantageous to have a free manipulator or a second weapon on the other arm.

And I also don't why you need a 25mm gatling cannon to take out pandoran wildlife when a simpler and less overkill 12.7mm (.50 cal) heavy machine gun would probably do the job fine. The low cyclic rate of the weapon (from what I could deduce in the featurettes) essentially defeats the purpose of a gatling system anyway.

Gatlings are usually used on aircraft due to their very high rate of fire. The rate of fire of the AMP's rifle sounds low even for one of the heavy machine guns I previously mentioned. At that rate of fire, the extra barrels of the gatling gun just add weight, and you'd be better off with a "conventional" arrangement.

The cannon is also described as using armor-piercing ammunition, whereas high explosive shells would be more devestating and probably be more effective as scaring away animals. Armor piercing ammo is used for just that, piercing armor. ;)

A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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