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| The Incredible Tool Using Octopi | |
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| Topic Started: Dec 15 2009, 11:34 AM (2,102 Views) | |
| Ànraich | Dec 21 2009, 08:17 PM Post #46 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Unless they have a very rigid oral tradition. It sounds crazy, but there are places where oral traditions stretch back not just centuries, not just millennium, but millions of years. In India there is a village that teaches all firstborn males an ancient chant. When some anthropologists and linguists came to study it, they found it was no known language, and that it didn't have any kind of pattern like language whatsoever. After intensive study, they found the closest thing it resembled was bird song. They later learned that this chant, this oral tradition that told no story, was more than ancient; it was a remnant of a time when we weren't even humans, millions of years old. Stuff like that is like something from a fantasy land, but it's real, it happens. And not just in India either, there are a couple places in Africa where the same thing occurs, and the chants may be even older (there's really no way to tell without information on the anatomy of our ancient ancestors). |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| ATEK Azul | Dec 21 2009, 08:23 PM Post #47 |
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Transhuman
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Wow sounds like Oral stories might have to be an important part of this species. Also what kind of sounds can an octopod make and what future could that have? Or would it be completely sight based thanks to their Cromataphores? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 08:23 PM Post #48 |
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Happy merry Jesusmas inhabitants of the Spec Forums!
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I read the whole article about the Octopus in HowStuffWorks. http://animals.howstuffworks.com/marine-life/octopus.htm My conclution is that octopi, if they evolve intelligence someday, will scientifically and technologically advance faster due to their general behaviour. While humans offen concider their emotions as an important fact for the take of decisions, octopi seems to be rather "cold", and more methodic. While humans have ethics to control the use of science, an intelligent octopi wouldn't have those ethics, or at least they would have a primitive or simple concept of ethics. That would make their civilization grow faster, and develop technology in less time. |
Greetings young life form! Procyon Lotor at your service.
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| ATEK Azul | Dec 21 2009, 08:26 PM Post #49 |
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Transhuman
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That's an interesting and beneficial conclusion. So in my opinion they might advance only slightly faster than humans thanks to their enviroment and lack of materials combined with their abillity to mentally advance quicker. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Ànraich | Dec 21 2009, 08:33 PM Post #50 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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I don't know what sounds they would make if they moved onto land, I was referring to if they remained aquatic and had a nomadic civilization (if they moved onto land, why wouldn't they just invent writing, since it would last longer and be more accurate?). And it obviously wouldn't be "oral" under water, it would have to be called something else. I just used oral tradition as the opposite of written accounts. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 08:33 PM Post #51 |
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(Sorry for the edit. Parasky posted before me by one second) I think body language and color change would make it for communication. They would also evolve sapience quicker than us Edited by TheCoon, Dec 21 2009, 08:35 PM.
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Greetings young life form! Procyon Lotor at your service.
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| Ànraich | Dec 21 2009, 08:34 PM Post #52 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Perhaps, but I doubt it, considering we're currently sapient and they're not, and they've been around longer (I think, cephalopods anyways). |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 08:36 PM Post #53 |
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Yes, but as far as we know, no other cephalopod in the history of earth was able to use tools before, and a species capable of using tools is clearly more intelligent than other species.
Edited by TheCoon, Dec 21 2009, 08:36 PM.
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| Ànraich | Dec 21 2009, 08:46 PM Post #54 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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Lots of things use tools though. Chimps, apes, dolphins, crows, parrots. I don't think tool use is a sign of real intelligence, just the first faint glimmers of it. Now making tools would be another matter, as it would require real insight and conceptualization. It takes only a clever animal to figure out how to smash a nut with a rock, but it takes something intelligent to put things together in a premeditated way with intended use and reuse in mind. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| ATEK Azul | Dec 21 2009, 08:50 PM Post #55 |
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Transhuman
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Well I figuered they might be able to use sound since Whales can and had no intention of them being on land. Also body language, skin texture and colors would most likely be their form of communication. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 08:54 PM Post #56 |
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But whales are mammals. They had vocal chords before they were marine animals. An octopus does not have any vocal chords and therefore, it's not able to produce any sort of sound. |
Greetings young life form! Procyon Lotor at your service.
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| Empyreon | Dec 21 2009, 09:56 PM Post #57 |
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Are you plausible?
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I agree that the "oral tradition" would probably manifest as some form of "color dance"; gestures and complex chomatophore displays, etc.
Do we have proof that early humans had ethics that controlled the use of science? Who's to say that octopi wouldn't develop some equivalent eventually? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 10:35 PM Post #58 |
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It's just an asumption. Since an octopus' behaviour is more cold and less emotional, I assumed that they might develop a similar intelligence. |
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| Empyreon | Dec 21 2009, 10:41 PM Post #59 |
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Are you plausible?
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Ah. I was under the impression that that was some kind of set-in-stone projection of what they would be, and not just a possible direction for their evolution to take. Also, octopi aren't nearly as social as hominids. Do you think their solitary nature might hinder or help their technological development? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| TheCoon | Dec 21 2009, 10:47 PM Post #60 |
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THey seem to be rather lonely. They just get together to reproduce, so a future octopi society might be composed of various couples of octopi living together and reuniting with other couples ina specific spot (again this is just one possible course for octopi sapience). This might affect how they develop technology. Instead of developing a huge missile for the protection of the colony for example, they might develop individual small missiles for each couple (this is just an example, I'm not saying that sapient octopi might create missiles). The technology might be developed for the benefit of the couples instead of the benefit of a whole city or nation. |
Greetings young life form! Procyon Lotor at your service.
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