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Is the swarm possable?; I hope not...
Topic Started: Dec 10 2009, 10:02 AM (411 Views)
sam999
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Do you think a lifeform like this could work? Swarm
Edited by sam999, Dec 10 2009, 10:02 AM.
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ATEK Azul
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I doubt we all have the time or want to read every chapter in that story so is it possible for you to give us a basic idea of what the swarm is?
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Ànraich
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From what I can tell some insectoid aliens of enormous numbers invaded the Earth during the Somme Offensive and have proceeded to initiate a plan for global domination. They're very caste like, from what I've read, and they are capable of "infecting" humans and making them part of the "Swarm."

I don't know how plausible any of it is, I would have to say it is very unlikely. At least the infection part, I can't really say about the rest. Sounds too much like the Zerg for my tastes.
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ATEK Azul
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Sounds interesting.

I think infection could be used as a form of reproduction.

Also I personally enjoy trying to make realistic Zerg they are awsome.
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sam999
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Bipppaddd... BUMP!
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Are you plausible?

Bumping is discouraged. If you wish to resurrect a thread, post new and edifying material.

On that note, are there any specific details you'd like to discuss to determine plausibility?
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ATEK Azul
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Well from a general Hivemind veiw in fiction SWarms have to absorb and rapidly evolve other species. How would thhat work?
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I haven't read this yet, but there are methods. The only scientifically probable way was the nanoprobes of Star Trek lore.

Though, some sort of macro-provirus could carry all the genetics in and, if the genes are always dominant, it could, maybe, convert the organism. Though, this method is a little questionable, I mean, genetic dominance would probably not be absolute 100% always works. Even then, the idea that the genes might be read is more complicated of a question to ask, since then there are a lot of other quesions that need to be answered that I don't think we're advanced enough to answer.

Of course, some of ther methods come to mind. A bit simpler, albeit, harder to maintain from an evolutionary perspective are cells directly implanted into the host. From here the cells go through mitosis, killing surrounding cells and using their biomass to make more of themselves. Effectively, though maybe not definable as, a tumor that assimilates you.
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ATEK Azul
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Interesting I like your idea's.

Also in many Swarms Evolution is directed from SElective breeding genetic modification and normal evolution inorder to turn assimilated species into the best killing machine that can be derived from the assimilated. Do you think this is a good route to take, and how effective can it be if you only use the new species and derived genes from the original species(meaning the original genes after evolving within assimilated species)?

Another thing is would Arthropoid(often with Dinosaurian influences) bodies be the best basic body system to use for a super swarm?
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I'm not sure what you're asking me in the first part. Just tell me if I have any of this wrong:

The organisms, while assimilating, use some of the host's already present genes in the offspring along with the genes of the parent, or infector, or what ever the term would be.

If that's the case then this is a fairly efficent way of reproduction for a few reasons. One being pretty obvious, if the organism already has genes present for you to assimilate that would help survive in a certain ecosystem, you can just take them. Why wait for a mutation when an evolution's buffet is open for ya'? The second one is speed. Asexual reproduction is not only a limited route to success (typically less offspring) but also a slower route to evolution since mutations are harder to spread. Amount of offspring would still be limited, This would keep evolution moving quick enough to survive, though, Speciation would probably happen alot, unless they have a mechanism built in to stop it.

As for the best body? I have no clue, that is a rough question to answer do to all the stuff to take into account. Plus, is there a best body? Bulldog ants and Naked Mole Rats have AFAIK similar levels of sociality (is that the word?), and both are pretty succesful in their habitat compared to rescources at their disposal (if you account body size, anyway).
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ATEK Azul
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Alright let me say it differently while taking into account what you said.

In most types of fictional super swarms, the swarm has a way to implant genes from the original infector species that have been collected and arranged in the most efficient way for killing, assimilating and colonisation from the many subspecies created by assimilation. These genes have been evolving within host species for long periods of time and are diverse in abillities but have a basic morphology coded in them of an Arthopoid body plan from the original species.

Would using this infectious genome on all species encountered be a good idea and method of reproduction for the colony, species and "civilisation" of the swarm or would some other method work better like a form of parasite that makes other species obey and evolve space travel be best?

And would selective breeding and GMing be useful to them or would it only be used during the first few generations until they acheive what they consider the perfect genome of infectious features?

As for body plans I guess we could try to think of the best body plan for being an invasive species and capturing species to implant. Another factor might be for them to evolve a simple base body plan that can easily integrate into other species.
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So, they store every gene on file, so they can use it later and GM new ones? Yeah, if they are that advanced I can beleive it. Though, all the genes being on the same strand could wreck the creatures RNA funtions, I'd imagine.

Selective Breeding doesn't make much sense, though, unless they used it until they had GE.
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ATEK Azul
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Okay thanks for understanding.

I would like to point out though that the only ones they have on the "main base" file are those derived from the original species after being injected into host organisms. This file would be the one used to convert new species. I would think they might also have minor files for each species they have as well though those would be the most impure in comparison to the infector genome.

And your right selective breeding would most likely become inferior in normal GMing happens but lets keep in mind that most Swarms of fiction have organic technology meaning that they might use some form of farmed microbe for implanting Genes for modification. This method is less acurrate and might need selective breeding for desired results.

And although I don't know about DNA much I'm sure your claim to RNA chaos is possible.

And last what do you think of the direction I posed for the evolution of the infector genomes body plan? Do you think those are a valid way to determine if Arthropoid body plans are the best body plan for a Swarm?
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