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Monotreme radiation; the giant platypi of terror
Topic Started: Nov 30 2009, 02:57 AM (1,684 Views)
Vultur-10


Assume that the K-T event killed off all the marsupials and placental mammals. How would monotremes inherit the earth? What sort of forms would develop?

There need to be saber-toothed monotreme pseudo-cats (because the saber-toothed form evolved a truly ludicrous number of times among mammals). Pseudosmilodon perhaps?
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Carlos
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So, you are basically suggesting a linage of mammals that don't have teeth beyond molars and premolars to develop fangs? I believe there's some logical falacy in here.

Anyways, given their relatively undeveloped digestive system, there robust skeleton and their simple dentition, I believe they are too limited to make a strong presence. True, they could diversify in several aquatic and terrestrial niches, but they wouldn't diversify nowhere as near as marsupials and placentals
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The Dodo
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Does anyone know how long ago monotremes had an undeveloped digestive system, it's hard to tell with just fossils. Maybe they had other niches before the arrival of marsupials in Australia being the only type of mammal I know of found in Australia's Mesozoic so you would think they had more diverse niches.

If they do have the undeveloped digestive system in this world then birds and reptiles would take over.
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Carlos
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There were multies and non-mammalian cynodonts in Mesozoic Oz, so monos were not alone
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

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The Dodo
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Really, could you provide a link if possible because all I'm getting so far is Monotremes.

Also I had an idea, since male platypus have poisonous spurs near they're hind legs I was wandering if a monotreme which lived on land could also evolve these and use them to squirt venom at predators if they try to sneak up behind them. I don't know how plausible this is.
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Carlos
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Even Wikipedia has the aussie cynodonts! As for the aussie multi it is relatively recent, but I guess you can still find it in a paleontology news site I think.

Try this one:

http://app.pan.pl/article/item/app54-001.html

Also the squirting venom thing is possible I think
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http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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The Dodo
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Alright then, are the cynodonts your talking about in the Triassic or afterwards, I know Australia had Cretaceous Dicynodonts so it wouldn't be surprising if they survived.

For monotreme diversification there could be sea-going monotremes, but they wouldn't be able to become fully aquatic until they lose the egg laying.
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Carlos
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Australian cynodonts were represented by small, herbivorous forms known as tritylodontids, which occured all the way from the Triassic to the Cretaceous, the latest forms occuring in Australia
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
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Rick Raptor
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The Dodo
Nov 30 2009, 07:14 PM
For monotreme diversification there could be sea-going monotremes, but they wouldn't be able to become fully aquatic until they lose the egg laying.
I´m not sure whether it´s right, but don´t monotremes lay eggs with a soft shell like snake eggs? So wouldn´t a sea-going platypus be able to evolve ovoviviparity and become fully aquatic, like some sea snakes did?
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Carlos
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Indeed; monotremates lay eggs with very thin shells, so vivipary or at least ovovipary is very easy to develop
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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The Dodo
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If terrestrial monotremes developed vivipary, do you think it would bring advantages over ovoviporous monotremes such as they don't have to protect the eggs.
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Vultur-10


JohnFaa
Nov 30 2009, 03:22 AM
So, you are basically suggesting a linage of mammals that don't have teeth beyond molars and premolars to develop fangs? I believe there's some logical falacy in here.


Is that a primitive trait of monotremes?
Echidnas and adult platypuses have no teeth, and platypus-ancestors like Steropodon and Obdurodon had only molars and premolars -- but I thought that was a stage in the direction of the total loss of teeth in extant monotremes, and that basal monotremes would have a full set. Is that wrong?

The monotreme fossil record is notably awful, which is one problem with this idea...

EDIT: Also, juvenile platypuses have canine teeth: This looks pretty reliable.
Edited by Vultur-10, Dec 2 2009, 02:59 AM.
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Carlos
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Okay then.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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The Dodo
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Vultur-10
Dec 2 2009, 02:08 AM
EDIT: Also, juvenile platypuses have canine teeth: This looks pretty reliable.
Juvenile platypus don't have canine, they have molars don't they.
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Carlos
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Yes. Now that I've seen that image again I noticed that platipeds have their teeth all located at the base of the jaws (replaced in the modern species by plates), which means it would be an awfull location for fangs. However, ancient monotremates might have had teeth loacted forward in their jaws
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

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