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Rewriting Earth; a new wave of spec evo projects
Topic Started: Nov 21 2009, 11:38 PM (7,629 Views)
Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

I like it, how about 'weedhair'?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

KayKay
 
I've been following the topic with interest. However, a couple of things surprised me, particularly keeping trilobites and arachnids.

I'd like to propose an idea, and it's nothing more than that I'd understand if you didn't want to accept it, that you start just a little earlier on than the Cambrian explosion?

Such as studying life from the Edicaran, then creating your own Cambrian explosion? No trilobites, no hallucigenia, no anomalocaris... but new shapes and forms of entirely your own design, based on the Edicaran life?

It's more work, and Edicaran life isn't all that well known. However, it would also mean that Earth would be re-written that bit more differently. Anyway, there is my suggestion, if you decide to try it.


Thank you for following this topic with interest.

Now to answer your comments.

The reason I start exactly at the Cambrian explosion was just ease of it. It's still not easy, but it is easier than starting before the Cambrian explosion.

Like you said, starting before the Cambrian explosion does give us greater freedom and makes this world a lot more divergent.

But, like you said, not a lot of information is available on creatures before the Cambrian explosion. The only life we know that existed in the Precambrian are the ediacarans. The sponges and cnidarians are a possibility, but, to the best of my knowledge, we don't know if they existed in the Precambrian.

So, with this lack of information, we'd have a larger speculative liscence. I like the idea, but it would be extremely hard to do. But hey, we are speculative biologists. We sometimes tackle the easy projects.

Let's stretch our minds a bit. Why don't we try for the project that will be nearly impossible? It can be done, but I know most of us will get a large headache.

What do you all say? Are you all in for a Precambrian start date, or do you want to continue with the Cambrian explosion start date?







Vultur-10
 
Cambrian takes us back before the emergence of land plants, so we can have all sorts of cool and bizarre flora developing.

I would like to have a lineage of charophyte-like water plants derived from green algae, which would eventually develop into an equivalent of flowering plants, with their gametes spread (pollination) by small aquatic invertebrates. It would be interesting to have "flowering plants" evolve in the water this time around.

But that's a lot farther ahead in time. For the Cambrian, I think the Neocharophyta should be just getting started, appearing in the mid-Cambrian -- green, usually multicellular 'plants'* resembling small threads, 2mm-14cm long (the larger species appearing toward the end of the Cambrian). In the last stages of the Cambrian they would begin to develop 'leaves', though at this point they are simply divisions of the threadlike stem, slightly flattened in the most derived species. Their stem is composed of enormous cells with many nuclei; some of the smaller species are a single cell up to 1.4cm long with hundreds of nuclei. These early neocharophytes would reproduce both sexually (by releasing gametes into the water) and asexually by budding.

Unimpressive at this stage, but holding the still invisible promise of greatness in the future...

So, what do you think? Would you like these to evolve eventually into one of the major plant groups of this Earth? And does anyone have a suggestion for a common name so I don't keep typing "Neocharophyta"? 'Greenyarn' maybe?

*What the word 'plants' includes varies depending on who's talking; some include red algae and green algae, while others restrict it just to the green algae + charophytes + land plants, and some limit it *just* to the land plants (embryophytes). My Neocharophyta would be plants under the first two definitions, but not the second.


I like it. Plus, it could still be used even if we go with the Precambrian start date.
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ATEK Azul
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Canis Lupis
Nov 25 2009, 09:25 PM
KayKay
 
I've been following the topic with interest. However, a couple of things surprised me, particularly keeping trilobites and arachnids.

I'd like to propose an idea, and it's nothing more than that I'd understand if you didn't want to accept it, that you start just a little earlier on than the Cambrian explosion?

Such as studying life from the Edicaran, then creating your own Cambrian explosion? No trilobites, no hallucigenia, no anomalocaris... but new shapes and forms of entirely your own design, based on the Edicaran life?

It's more work, and Edicaran life isn't all that well known. However, it would also mean that Earth would be re-written that bit more differently. Anyway, there is my suggestion, if you decide to try it.


Thank you for following this topic with interest.

Now to answer your comments.

The reason I start exactly at the Cambrian explosion was just ease of it. It's still not easy, but it is easier than starting before the Cambrian explosion.

Like you said, starting before the Cambrian explosion does give us greater freedom and makes this world a lot more divergent.

But, like you said, not a lot of information is available on creatures before the Cambrian explosion. The only life we know that existed in the Precambrian are the ediacarans. The sponges and cnidarians are a possibility, but, to the best of my knowledge, we don't know if they existed in the Precambrian.

So, with this lack of information, we'd have a larger speculative liscence. I like the idea, but it would be extremely hard to do. But hey, we are speculative biologists. We sometimes tackle the easy projects.

Let's stretch our minds a bit. Why don't we try for the project that will be nearly impossible? It can be done, but I know most of us will get a large headache.

What do you all say? Are you all in for a Precambrian start date, or do you want to continue with the Cambrian explosion start date?







Vultur-10
 
Cambrian takes us back before the emergence of land plants, so we can have all sorts of cool and bizarre flora developing.

I would like to have a lineage of charophyte-like water plants derived from green algae, which would eventually develop into an equivalent of flowering plants, with their gametes spread (pollination) by small aquatic invertebrates. It would be interesting to have "flowering plants" evolve in the water this time around.

But that's a lot farther ahead in time. For the Cambrian, I think the Neocharophyta should be just getting started, appearing in the mid-Cambrian -- green, usually multicellular 'plants'* resembling small threads, 2mm-14cm long (the larger species appearing toward the end of the Cambrian). In the last stages of the Cambrian they would begin to develop 'leaves', though at this point they are simply divisions of the threadlike stem, slightly flattened in the most derived species. Their stem is composed of enormous cells with many nuclei; some of the smaller species are a single cell up to 1.4cm long with hundreds of nuclei. These early neocharophytes would reproduce both sexually (by releasing gametes into the water) and asexually by budding.

Unimpressive at this stage, but holding the still invisible promise of greatness in the future...

So, what do you think? Would you like these to evolve eventually into one of the major plant groups of this Earth? And does anyone have a suggestion for a common name so I don't keep typing "Neocharophyta"? 'Greenyarn' maybe?

*What the word 'plants' includes varies depending on who's talking; some include red algae and green algae, while others restrict it just to the green algae + charophytes + land plants, and some limit it *just* to the land plants (embryophytes). My Neocharophyta would be plants under the first two definitions, but not the second.


I like it. Plus, it could still be used even if we go with the Precambrian start date.
I like all of this stuff and some of the other things posted.

My opinion would be to try and fit in the Precambrian date along with analoges to some of the cambrian ideas though with unique features. Hense the word analoge as I'm sure you guessed.

Also to me with the more primative forms of the Precambrian we might have the abillity to fuse creatures to create more unique organisms(more in a Lichen fashion then true fusion).

Just some ideas. :D
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Sounds like a good idea. Analogues will definantly be a prescence.


I tell you guys what I'll do: tommorow, after stuffing myself of course, I'll do some research on ediacarans and any other Precambrian life.

I'll come up with some phyla that could arise from a rewritten Cambrian explosion and I'll post the results sometime between 10 or 12 o'clock at night.

Keep in mind that those are just my ideas and not concrete. Just ideas that anyone may expand on or add to.

Sound good?
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ATEK Azul
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Sounds good see you tommarow. Maybe any way.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Alright. Wish me luck!

If you all have suggestions, I'd like you to PM them to me. It will save me time from looking through this topic for ideas.

I'll check the PMs at around 7 or 8 o'clock. Or whenever I've got the chance.
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Vultur-10


Dickinsonia is an Ediacaran creature that's been suggested to have had pressurized chambers making up a large part of its body. That would be a useful feature to expand on -- perhaps eventually evolving hydraulic 'muscles' from it after a hundred million years or so. Or chambers that pressurized and expelled poison?
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sam999
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Vultur-10
Nov 26 2009, 05:17 PM
Or chambers that pressurized and expelled poison?
Or a sac of methane that could be sprayed and ingnted? Flamethrowers anyone?
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.
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Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please...
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ATEK Azul
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Pressurized Organ Systems could have many uses including stinging organs across the body or heat expelling. Maybe more aerodynamic vertebrate equivilents that develop hair inside bubble like forms of this organ? Other things might be exolungs extending under the skin through out the entire life form? Which would create interesting skin adaptations to protect them?
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Hope you all didn't get too full.

Anyway, here's the phyla I propose for this new start date. Hope you all enjoy. And critiques, suggestions, or questions are welcome and greatly appreciated.


Proposed Phyla For After A New Cambrian Explosion
 
Porifera - sponges - Poriferans were already quite developed in the Precambrian and were quite successful afterwards on HE. I’d expect the same thing to occur on NE.




Cnidaria - jellyfish - Cnidarians, like poriferans, were already quite developed in the Precambrian and were quite successful afterwards on HE. I’d expect the same thing to occur on NE.




Lodihelminthes - quilt-worm - Lodihelminthians are descendents of the ediacarans, evolved to use their pressurized chambers for locomotion. In this way, they have evolved a hydraulic muscular system, using it to move and to launch poisons at predators. They have evolved a primitive mouth near their anterior.




Capapoda - capapods - Capapods are descendents of kimberella, now widely accepted among NE scientists to be a precursor to HE’s mollusks. Of course, on NE, kimberella never radiated into being a bona fide mollusk. A few traits were missing, most notably a radula, forcing the kimberella to evolve some interesting alternatives. On HE, this is how the radula came about. But, on NE, this facilitated the evolution of an attondula. The attondula is basically a double set of jaws. Two sets of hedge clipper-like teeth: the foremost biting vertically and the one after that biting horizontally. The vast majority of capapods are herbivores, though some don’t shy away from meat.




Macrolida - macrolids - Macrolids are descendents of the ediacarans. At the time of the Cambrian explosion, some ediacarans lost their pressurized chambers and instead evolved a more conventional method of locomotion: analogue muscles. These creatures, through convergent evolution, have evolved cetae, which propel them forward in the water.




Arthrochaeta - arthrochaetes - Arthrochaetes evolved from the macrolids around the late Cambrian. The soft skin of the macrolids hardened and formed plates, allowing the arthrochaetes to support a larger body mass and thus eat more. Amount of limbs varies in this phylum, but the average number is about eight pairs. Their hard skeleton, effective limbs, and efficient respiratory system (evolved from two vestigial pressurization chambers) are major players when it comes to these creatures taking over the land, starting in the late Carboniferous (though they make their way onto land in the early Devonian, chasing their cephalate prey that got onto land in the late Silurian).




Echinodermata - echinoderms - Echinoderms are relatively common in HE’s seas, evolving from a deuterostome ancestor as early as the start of the Cambrian. However, fossil evidence found in HE’s fossil strata has revealed that there were deuterostomes and protostomes before the Cambrian began. While the deuterostomes never split into two phyla on HE (Echinodermata and Chordata) before the Cambrian, who’s to say it couldn’t have happened? That is exactly what happened on NE. The deuterostomes split just before the end of the Precambrian on NE, forming the familiar echinoderms and the strange cephalostians.




Cephalostia - cephalates - Cephalates are the only phylum to have a hard bone-like skeleton, other than Arthrochaeta. It is the evolution of a hard bony skeleton that pushes them onto the land. Other factors included the migration of lichens and neocharophytes onto land, so chasing their food items is a major factor. The cephalates make get onto land in the late Silurian but, because of their inefficient lungs (evolved from a portion of the water vascular system (which has now evolved a blood substitute)), the cephalates will never dominate the land. Except when oxygen levels are quite high.
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ATEK Azul
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Canis Lupis
Nov 27 2009, 12:16 AM
Hope you all didn't get too full.

Anyway, here's the phyla I propose for this new start date. Hope you all enjoy. And critiques, suggestions, or questions are welcome and greatly appreciated.


Proposed Phyla For After A New Cambrian Explosion
 
Porifera - sponges - Poriferans were already quite developed in the Precambrian and were quite successful afterwards on HE. I’d expect the same thing to occur on NE.




Cnidaria - jellyfish - Cnidarians, like poriferans, were already quite developed in the Precambrian and were quite successful afterwards on HE. I’d expect the same thing to occur on NE.




Lodihelminthes - quilt-worm - Lodihelminthians are descendents of the ediacarans, evolved to use their pressurized chambers for locomotion. In this way, they have evolved a hydraulic muscular system, using it to move and to launch poisons at predators. They have evolved a primitive mouth near their anterior.




Capapoda - capapods - Capapods are descendents of kimberella, now widely accepted among NE scientists to be a precursor to HE’s mollusks. Of course, on NE, kimberella never radiated into being a bona fide mollusk. A few traits were missing, most notably a radula, forcing the kimberella to evolve some interesting alternatives. On HE, this is how the radula came about. But, on NE, this facilitated the evolution of an attondula. The attondula is basically a double set of jaws. Two sets of hedge clipper-like teeth: the foremost biting vertically and the one after that biting horizontally. The vast majority of capapods are herbivores, though some don’t shy away from meat.




Macrolida - macrolids - Macrolids are descendents of the ediacarans. At the time of the Cambrian explosion, some ediacarans lost their pressurized chambers and instead evolved a more conventional method of locomotion: analogue muscles. These creatures, through convergent evolution, have evolved cetae, which propel them forward in the water.




Arthrochaeta - arthrochaetes - Arthrochaetes evolved from the macrolids around the late Cambrian. The soft skin of the macrolids hardened and formed plates, allowing the arthrochaetes to support a larger body mass and thus eat more. Amount of limbs varies in this phylum, but the average number is about eight pairs. Their hard skeleton, effective limbs, and efficient respiratory system (evolved from two vestigial pressurization chambers) are major players when it comes to these creatures taking over the land, starting in the late Carboniferous (though they make their way onto land in the early Devonian, chasing their cephalate prey that got onto land in the late Silurian).




Echinodermata - echinoderms - Echinoderms are relatively common in HE’s seas, evolving from a deuterostome ancestor as early as the start of the Cambrian. However, fossil evidence found in HE’s fossil strata has revealed that there were deuterostomes and protostomes before the Cambrian began. While the deuterostomes never split into two phyla on HE (Echinodermata and Chordata) before the Cambrian, who’s to say it couldn’t have happened? That is exactly what happened on NE. The deuterostomes split just before the end of the Precambrian on NE, forming the familiar echinoderms and the strange cephalostians.




Cephalostia - cephalates - Cephalates are the only phylum to have a hard bone-like skeleton, other than Arthrochaeta. It is the evolution of a hard bony skeleton that pushes them onto the land. Other factors included the migration of lichens and neocharophytes onto land, so chasing their food items is a major factor. The cephalates make get onto land in the late Silurian but, because of their inefficient lungs (evolved from a portion of the water vascular system (which has now evolved a blood substitute)), the cephalates will never dominate the land. Except when oxygen levels are quite high.
I like it good job.

I have some comments though.

If Cephalopods Ether don't exist or at best they are omnivores(judging by the Capapod info) then maybe Cnidarians could evolve into Cephalopod analodges with complex Brain nets(complex uncentralized brain)?

And if mollusks don't form then maybe the Capapods would evolve groups with features from all 3 groups(Molluscs, Gastropods and Cephalopods) of mollusc with some of their ancestral traits?

I can see a sister group to Lodihelminthes which evolved the Pressurized chambers into rows of jets on it's sides?

Did you actually decide to put in Chordates? Because it sounds like it from the Echinodermata info.

Also it sounds like We are starting in the late Cambrian while the point of divergence is in the Precambrian is that correct?
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Well, the cephalates aren't chordates. They don't have a notochord or most other chordate features. Cephalostia is named for their boney heads (from the Latin cephalo- meaning "head" and -ostia meaning "bone"). The cephalates have a somewhat complex brain housed in their head (which is really the center of their body). The head also houses a thick skull, to protect their brain. The cephalates have four legs arranged in a radial pattern, their fifth limb having evolved to be a manipulatory organ.

I see what you mean now. That does sound kind of confusing. I was just saying that, on HE (Home Earth), some scientists theorize that deuterostomes split before the Cambrian explosion. When deuterostomes split on HE, they split into echinoderms and chordates.

But, on NE (New Earth), when the deuterostomes split (after the Cambrian explosion), they split into echinoderms and cephalates.




Well, capapods are descended from kimberrella. On HE, some scientists argue that kimberella evolved into the mollusks. But, on NE, it evolved into the capapods. So, in effect, the capapods are mollusk analouges. Though, unlike in HE sees, cephalopods (or something like cephalopods) either are not very numerous or don't evolve. Rather, the capapods evolve some kind of ribbon swimming organ out of their foot (like nudibranchs).




Yes, that Lodihelminthes idea sounds plausible. Maybe it would exist as a class or an order or something. They maybe utilized by a pseudoceolomatic link between the lodihelminthians and the macrolids.




And yes, we are starting in the late Cambrian, with the point of divergence being the late Precambrian.
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Ànraich
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi

Sorry I haven't kept up to speed with this topic, anyone care to summarize what's been decided?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

I think we are going to try to make our own Cambrian explosion.

I've got some phyla I thought up in the post above yours and I'm hoping some other people will submit their ideas.

We'll deliberate on which phyla we want to keep and which we want to axe. Then we'll start making creatures for the late Cambrian.
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KayKay
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I'm trying to think up something, finding it difficult.
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