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Evolutionary patterns; Evolutionary pattern extrapolation
Topic Started: Nov 15 2009, 08:20 AM (3,506 Views)
T.Neo
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I'd like to take the oppurtunity to post some things that have evolved multiple times/niches that have evolved multiple times.

Body structures and life stratagies:

Eyes- evolved multiple times. Advanced eyes have evolved multiple times as well. Vision is a very useful ability, I don't see why this wouldn't evolve elsewhere.

Jaws/mouthparts- evolved multiple times. From the derived gill arches of vertebrates, to the leg-derived mandibles of arthropods, and the rasping radulae of molluscs. Jaws also seem to be a very useful feature, and have evolved to fit several different roles.

Supporting structures- evolved multiple times, in more advanced creatures such as arthropods and vertebrates. Simply put, supporting structures are essential to becoming a dominant species, although an exoskeleton can hinder size.

Armor- evolved multiple times. The exoskeletons of arthropods are both supporting structures and armor, although some species are more protected then others. Also very common in benthos such as molluscs, brachiopods and sea urchins. Vertebrates, especially tetrapods, display many vastly different armor schemes.

Insulatory structures- evolved multiple times, vital to temperature regulation in active creatures. From the hair of mammals to the hair-like structures of pterosaurs and protofeathers of dinosaurs, and fluffy setae of bumblebees, insulatory structures are quite likely to evolve elsewhere.

Flight- evolved multiple times, once in arthropods and three times in vertebrates. Mechanisms for flight differ.

Euosociality- evolved multiple times in arthropods, and even in mammals.

Display organs- horns, crests, etc. Multiple times in vertebrates, especially dinosaurs/mammals.

Camoflage- very common. Is dependant on the environment, but is almost certain to evolve elsewhere.

Hydrodynamic bodyplans- evolved multiple times, in fish, squid, icthyosaurs, dolphins/whales and to a lesser extent in some other secondarily aquatic lineages.

Reliant polinisation, i.e. flowers- relying on another organism to propagate the gametes. This occurs in some of Earth's plants.

Symbiosis- evolved multiple times. Corals and algae, and the fungi and algae that make up lichens, etc.

Life stratagies:

Small shelly organisms- brachiopods and some molluscs.

Specialised carnivores- tyrannosaurs, big cats.

Generalist carnivores- allosaurs, maniraptors, dogs/wolves.

Gigantic aquatic filter-feeders- baleen whales, certain fish.

Small herbivores- hypsilophodonts, deer etc and kangaroos/wallabies. All very different yet have some key similarities.

Medium herbivores- term is relative. buffalo, bison, mammoths, elephants, hadrosaurs, ceratopsians. All very common in their environments.

Large herbivores- sauropods, indricotheres. Perhaps mammoths and elephants in their particular environments.

Ant/termite eaters- anteaters, pangolins. Clearly ants would not exist outside of Earth (unless introduced) but equivalent creatures should occupy the niche.

Armored animals- tortoises, ankylosaurs/stegosaurs, glyptodonts and perhaps rhinoceroses. Heavily armored animals.

Parasites- evolved multiple times. Animals that exploit other animals to survive.


I am sure there are more repeated traits or niches, feel free to correct any errors or make additions. :)








Edited by T.Neo, Nov 16 2009, 08:52 AM.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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ATEK Azul
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T.Neo
Nov 20 2009, 01:27 PM
All stable elements are mapped out in the periodic table, and are known.

As for compounds, well, we know most of the naturally occuring simple ones. WHOLLY unusual complex organic ones could exist (and would be found in extraterrestrial life etc) but they probably aren't the sort of thing that would be widely and naturally occuring.

Unless there is a way that a multicellular autotroph can produce energy without sunlight using just plain old soil and water, I'm not convinced.

I'm not sure what you mean by limited and disasterous.
1: comment is unknowable since we can not explore our universe indepth or even our galaxy.

2: I agree though tectonics and life would be big factors in that along with the above.

3: There might be by using plasm or lightning on a world with high numbers of storms along with elements like neon in the atmosphere.

4: I meant that relying on an outside source of energy might be disasterous for life if the sun is blocked for long periods of time by volcanism or celestial orbits(or other things).

As for the limated part I was meaning over all diversity of life being limated by always having Plants on all planets which does not seem likely.



Holbenilord: I can beleave those sources of energy but can you explain the elastic one?


I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Holben
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Um... it hangs on an elastic tree, which it's weight pulls down, and the enrgy released as it goes flying mixes chemicals which react?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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ATEK Azul
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That sounds like it needs a permant organ though. Also I think refining it would be a good idea.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

It was just a random energy source i thought of.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Iowanic
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I'm not sure I'm ready for spandex lifeforms.....

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T.Neo
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ATEK Azul
Nov 20 2009, 02:44 PM


Quote:
 
1: comment is unknowable since we can not explore our universe indepth or even our galaxy.


Incorrect. All elements are plotted out by the periodic table, mathamatically. The existence of unknown compounds is slightly more plausible, but still highly remote.

Quote:
 
3: There might be by using plasm or lightning on a world with high numbers of storms along with elements like neon in the atmosphere.


Lightning usually fries anything it strikes. ;)

Not sure about plasma or a planet with a high concentration of neon in the atmosphere. Sounds far-fetched.

Quote:
 
4: I meant that relying on an outside source of energy might be disasterous for life if the sun is blocked for long periods of time by volcanism or celestial orbits(or other things).


Yes, but it's happened here on Earth- celestial impacts (and I am sure a bad volcano or two) have blotted the sun out for months, if not years. Yet plants survived. Anything longer then that, and you'd kill all the life off anyway.

Quote:
 
As for the limated part I was meaning over all diversity of life being limated by always having Plants on all planets which does not seem likely.


And I fully agree. Plants are a group limited to Earth. What I'm saying here though, is that the primary producers (wherever possible) are going to photosynthesise. Be they leafy elephants, or spiky tree ferns, or purple slime.

A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Holben
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Yeah, well if you could have a creature surrounded by a 'faraday cage' exoskeleton, could it power itself through lightning?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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ATEK Azul
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T.Neo
Nov 20 2009, 04:12 PM
ATEK Azul
Nov 20 2009, 02:44 PM


Quote:
 
1: comment is unknowable since we can not explore our universe indepth or even our galaxy.


Incorrect. All elements are plotted out by the periodic table, mathamatically. The existence of unknown compounds is slightly more plausible, but still highly remote.

Quote:
 
3: There might be by using plasm or lightning on a world with high numbers of storms along with elements like neon in the atmosphere.


Lightning usually fries anything it strikes. ;)

Not sure about plasma or a planet with a high concentration of neon in the atmosphere. Sounds far-fetched.

Quote:
 
4: I meant that relying on an outside source of energy might be disasterous for life if the sun is blocked for long periods of time by volcanism or celestial orbits(or other things).


Yes, but it's happened here on Earth- celestial impacts (and I am sure a bad volcano or two) have blotted the sun out for months, if not years. Yet plants survived. Anything longer then that, and you'd kill all the life off anyway.

Quote:
 
As for the limated part I was meaning over all diversity of life being limated by always having Plants on all planets which does not seem likely.


And I fully agree. Plants are a group limited to Earth. What I'm saying here though, is that the primary producers (wherever possible) are going to photosynthesise. Be they leafy elephants, or spiky tree ferns, or purple slime.

1: it is possible that there are chemicals we don't know because.

Life as said could create something.

The universe might not work the same every where.

Mathmaticly we can not know every type of molecule becouse of several reasons like below.

We don't know how the universe works.

We don't know how sub-subatomic particles work.

Things could create the substance artificially.

And If wormhole type things exist naturally then things not normally possible might exist around them.



2: Lightning could be used by rubber and metal using life. And Neon thing is probably quite easy while lightning (I beleave)creates plasma.



3: True but inorder for Non-photosynthesisers to take over they wouldf need a descent amount of diversity already which means they are part of the food chain, that part of the food chain would survive and prosper as most life dependent of photosynthesisers perish.



4: I actually glad you agree and I can see your point.



Holbenilord: A faraday cage might work but I know little about them so no further comment from me.


Iowanic: Lol. Comic book plants are not what we had in mind but that is a funny image you created.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Ànraich
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Chemistry is not a magic science, it's very mathematical. There are many things that simply cannot exist in this universe because electrons, protons, and neutrons can only bind in a limited number of ways. We might find one or two odd elements out in the far, far reaches of space made in some obscure process that is very rare, but for the most part everything on the periodic table is all that naturally occurs in any given stellar system through common phenomenon. In fact many things on the periodic table can only be made in labs, they don't occur naturally.

And we can mathematically know every possible molecular arrangement because there are a limited number of ways you can arrange sub-atomic particles, meaning there is a limited number of types of atoms, meaning there is only a limited number of ways you can arrange those atoms. You're incorrect in saying we don't know how sub-atomic particles work, we know exactly how they work. Protons and neutrons bind together through nuclear force, and electrons are attracted by electromagnetism. It's basic high school chemistry.
Edited by Ànraich, Nov 20 2009, 07:02 PM.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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ATEK Azul
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Nov 20 2009, 07:01 PM
Chemistry is not a magic science, it's very mathematical. There are many things that simply cannot exist in this universe because electrons, protons, and neutrons can only bind in a limited number of ways. We might find one or two odd elements out in the far, far reaches of space made in some obscure process that is very rare, but for the most part everything on the periodic table is all that naturally occurs in any given stellar system through common phenomenon. In fact many things on the periodic table can only be made in labs, they don't occur naturally.

And we can mathematically know every possible molecular arrangement because there are a limited number of ways you can arrange sub-atomic particles, meaning there is a limited number of types of atoms, meaning there is only a limited number of ways you can arrange those atoms. You're incorrect in saying we don't know how sub-atomic particles work, we know exactly how they work. Protons and neutrons bind together through nuclear force, and electrons are attracted by electromagnetism. It's basic high school chemistry.
I never said it was Magical and I will agree it is Mathmatical.

What I was saying is that if we don't know how the universe works every where then we can not mathematically predict every chemical in existence.

Also I said Sub-Subatomic. Of course we know what known Subatomic particles do I am an idiot living with amish creasionists!

Also did you ignore the stuff I said About life, wormhole and artificially created substances?

And also I can rightly say that We can't know every substance as far as we know because we only know the laws of our tiny chunk of the universe and the theory of every thing does not exist yet.


Please read my comment theroughly before blasting my head off okay.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Ànraich
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi

The universe works the same everywhere, that's the foundation of physics an science as a whole. We know this because we live on a planet orbiting a star which is part of a galaxy of which there are many billions more. If the universe didn't work the same everywhere there wouldn't be so many galaxies, as there would be different laws of nature in different areas.

And wormholes do exist, space is full of them. We know them as "black holes" and "white holes" and nothing special happens around them. It's just a star that's become so dense it's fallen through the fabric of space-time and somehow come out somewhere else in an unusual form.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Holben
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Maybe, but white holes would emit themselves in a very short space of time and fall apart.

We can predict movements of subsubatomic particles, because of quantum mechanics. However, thanks to uncertainty, we cannot know everything about them, but we can assign a ROUGH value.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Ànraich
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi

I think that uncertainty is just another one of those things that future scientists will laugh at, just like cosmic aether and the geocentric theory and spontaneous generation of living things from non-living things. The way I see it, the universe is composed of information. Everything works by set mathematical laws, and our knowledge of those laws can come only as fast as our understanding of the mathematics behind them, as well as their relationship to other laws. I am firm in my belief that there will come a day when we have answered all questions and know everything. Not in our life time, not in our great great grandchildrens' life times, but someday in the far, far future.


But we're getting off topic, let's get back to posting common evolutionary patterns. What about waste disposal? How have organisms dealt with getting rid of the waste products produced by cellular respiration and digestion?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

All organbisms we know have movement, respiration, sensitivity, growth, reproduction, excretion, and nutrition.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Waste products could be reused by the body. Especially in a nutrient poor environment where food is scarce. Like in an extremely large desert, I wouldn't be surprised of a creature's excrement were reused to obtain as many nutrients as possible.
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