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Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web.

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A Speculative Dinosaur Project; What if dinos never died out?
Topic Started: Nov 8 2009, 11:28 AM (3,390 Views)
T.rex09
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What if all non-avian dinosaurs didn't die out? After Dougal Dixon's famous book The New Dinosaurs: An Alternate Evolution many different people have asked that question. I will try to answer it.

Anybody who wants to is welcome to join. I'm a pretty crappy artist so I will probably need the assistance of 1 or 2 artists.
Timelines will be available if you guys request.
"Church if I die you can have my orange juice."-Red vs Blue
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T.rex09
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That's a cool idea! But I think a theropod would probably take that niche first in most of the places you mentioned. Mabye on New Zealand an order of notosuchians could take that niche before a bird or theropod could.
"Church if I die you can have my orange juice."-Red vs Blue
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Carlos
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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What about flightless azhdarchids taking those niches though?
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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T.rex09
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That's an even better idea! Man, New Zealand's fauna is gonna be a little strange.
"Church if I die you can have my orange juice."-Red vs Blue
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Venatosaurus
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HAUS OF SPEC
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New Zealand's always weird, no matter what alternate scenario you play lol !



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ATEK Azul
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I would like to see the theropods get their but kicked some where and be replaced by a new group.

I would also like to see New Zealand have a mixed fuana of prehistoric(in our world) Bird lineages, Bats and Pterosaurs that would make an interesting ecosystem!

Also a cool thing to do would be to go into the future after you've covered the past and present.

Also did the K-T event not happen or did an alternate one happen that spared the Dinosaurs and effected the other groups of the K-T extinct the same way as our worlds equivelents?

I think the 2nd idea would be interesting.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Yes, if it was the second option you went for, that would make this project a lot less cliche and more interesting.

Not that it isn't interesting anyway.
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Carlos
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Bats would probably not be present at all; instead the late Cretaceous had an enigmatic clade of mammals that probably developed flight before bats did, so those would end up surviving and not allowing bats to evolve at all.

Also I don't think any group would completly replace theropods, but with carnivorous mammals, crocodillians, pterosaurs and omnivorous ornithischians around I suppose some landmasses could have several large predatory members of these clades
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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The Dodo
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How about the main herbivore of New Zealand be a flightless water fowl related to Vegavis.
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T.rex09
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That's possible.
"Church if I die you can have my orange juice."-Red vs Blue
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Wouldn't pterosaurs be extinct? They were being totally outcompeted at the end of the Cretacious.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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The Dodo
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No, they were still around, some large ones like azhdarchids but I think there were also some medium sized ones as well. I can't really remember, JohnFaa seems to know a lot about that.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Yes, the azhdarchids were around, but declining due to competition from birds.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Carlos
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You. Are. So. STUPID!!!!!!*

Pterosaurs WERE NOT being outcompeted by birds, that is an old, stupid theory that has been comproved at least partially wrong eons ago. Its even logically impossible, because not only its highly unlikely an animal clade outcompetes another one as soon as it evolves, for the older clade is still holding those niches, but also there were no avian analogues for many pterosaur clades that were gone, something you would expect from a clade outcompeting another one, and finally pterosaurs simply had a quick loss of species, which is more consistent as them being victims of a minor extinction event somewhere in the Cretaceous than outcompeted by birds, which had the exact same number of forms before and after pterosaurs began becoming scarcer.

Also, note that the pterosaur fossil record of the late Cretaceous is about as complete as the last puzzle game I played: its way too fragmentary to suggest anything. It does suggest, however, that both azhdarchids and nyctosaurids (the first were like pterosaurian storks, the later like pterosaurian seagulls [almost literally as the average nyctosaurid was about as big as the biggest modern larids]) as well as some other pterosaurs survived to the very end, and anurognathids may have survived thanks to their very scarce fossil record; they are, after all, the most primitive pterosaurs, but they only occur in the fossil record when non-pterodactyloids were already dying out, and because there are no laggerstaten between the early Cretaceous and the Eocene they could very well have survived until the KT event.

*Sorry, but I get pissed off when people say bullshit.
Edited by Carlos, Nov 10 2009, 04:26 PM.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Don't be so harsh John.

Ever hear of CALMLY telling people they are mistaken?
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SIngemeister
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Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm

He has. Most members of the forum have told him about it, but he listens to it less than creationism.
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RRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!
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