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Birdless world; stronger K-T
Topic Started: Nov 5 2009, 08:41 PM (4,596 Views)
Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

65 million years ago, an asteroid struck Earth and wiped out a good percentage of life on the planet.

Among the extinct were all dinosaurs (save for birds), all air reptiles, all marine reptiles, and a few groups I forgot to mention (I'm not a paleontologist, so if someone were to name all the groups that went extinct, I'd be grateful).



Anyway, what I was wondering was: what if the asteroid had been slightly larger? Large enough to count the birds among those forever buried in the fossil record.

What would the post K-T world be like without birds?

Discuss ideas and possible creatures.


P.S. If you're interested in turning this into an actual project, let me know.
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ATEK Azul
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The Dodo
Nov 13 2009, 04:10 PM
ATEK Azul
Nov 13 2009, 03:52 PM
Nope and I am glad because the people in the topics were going to make them have Bat wings with Membranes(read death at the poles).
To be fair I was the one that suggested that so I should be taking the blame.

For the polar fliers maybe it could fall the marsupials with feather like structures which evolved in the south while bats evolved in the north. Then some of them could stay on Antartica when it freezed over.
Okay well you can have the blame if you want it I honestly could care less about who takes it.

As for your ide about distrabution it could work but I think the Marsupials will find their ways to the north pole and replace any revolutionary bat designs starting to evolve.

This could leed to penguin analoges at both poles descended from Marsupials(with would look awsome with 2 extra fins of hair and their pouches).
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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The Dodo
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They could be diving bird analoges as well. I think they would also have a good chance of taking over New Zealand as well.
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Carlos
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I don't think there would be "polar fliers". Most likely both bats and the "feathered" mammals would have a cosmopolitian distribution, with the only polar bats being migrators.

But yes, I like the idea of penguin mammals
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Of course bats could become tundra dwellers. At least up north. Migrate to warmer regions in winter and then migrate back to the north in the summer.

Besides, the wings could become fur covered. And massive blood vessels surging through the wings could potentially warm up the wings.



But I like the idea of polar marsupials a lot better.
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Carlos
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Quote:
 
And massive blood vessels surging through the wings could potentially warm up the wings


Thats a very bad idea. They'd loose a lot of heat with large blood vessels in the membranes
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Really? I thought if it were covered with heat-retaining fur that it would be a good idea.


Anyway, for those still wondering, no pterosaurs or microraptors. All creatures that went extinct in HE's K-T are extinct in AL's K-T, along with birds.
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ATEK Azul
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Yeah Large blood vessels are bad and always a heat loosing adaptation whitch means your idea is toast.

And if you want polar Bats so much, make a group that has wings completely unlike any bat we know. That means no membrane and a smaller surface area. You might also want to look at Ice Age and cold climate adaptation. Because your side group of Bats will only be good in the Arctic(where they evolved) as normal Bats and flying Marsupials will out compete them for quite some time if not for ever every where else.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Yeah, the blood thing was a bad idea. I did some research and that blew my idea out of the water.

So, basically, marsupial fliers in Antarctica. I'm actually leaning towards having marsupial fliers ruling the colder regions (like the northern temperate zones and the tundra zones) whie the bats rule the warmer regions (like the southern temperate zones and the tropics).





Anyway, I want to actually lean more towards the possibility of actually having ungulate carnivores.

Miacids, the ancestor of today's carnivorans (I'll call them carnivorans), fed primarilly on lizards, birds, and small mammals. Now, birds would be extinct in this timeline. And sure, the lizard and small mammal populations would be way up. But the ungulates could conceivably become more diverse and more well adapted to the climate.

With the birds gone, their shrew-like ancestors could come out of the shadows earlier and conceivably take over the mesonychid's future niches.
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ATEK Azul
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I also think both poles and colder regions would be Marsupial controled.

As for ungulate predators go for it that would be awsome especially if they partially get their butts kicked around the globe by Marsupial carnivores and have to share carnivore niches cuasing both groups to specialise in certain roles around the globe.
Edited by ATEK Azul, Nov 13 2009, 10:35 PM.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Okay. I may do the ungulate carnivores.

Could I get some more opinion on having ungulate carnivores? Are they a plausible addition? I'd particularly like the opinion of someone who knows a lot about this group.
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ATEK Azul
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Well then I won't be of any help since I know squat on those creatures besides that Cetaceans are related to them and carnivora out competed them some how.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

If that statement was offensive to you, sorry about that. You didn't act like it was, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't.

And that's okay. I don't really know much about these creatures either. All I know was they were related to cetaceans, perissodactyls, and artiodactyls. They were among the largest carnivores of all time.
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The Dodo
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I must also edmit that I don't know much about Mesonychids either, but I will just dump down everything I know about them. They're more closely related to cetaceans and artiodactyls then perissodactyls. They exisited during the paleocene through to the Oglicence, although they went into decline after the Eocene. They walked on hoof like toes.

I think you should keep them in, also even if birds are gone that will get rid of the Gastornis and other large birds but they still have things like Pristichampsus to contend with.
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Carlos
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Regarding the flying mammals, you guys always screw things up. Both bats and whatever else would occur all over the world, not be restricted to cold or warm regions. And bats, as I've endlessly told, could either be migratory or hibernate, no special adaptation (besides perhaps fur on the membranes, as CL suggested) necessary. CAN'T YOU GET THAT!?

Anyways, living mesonychians could exist, perhaps occupying hyena like niches. Hell, maybe Carnivora never achieved the same level of success as in our world, allowing for older carnivore mammals like hyeanodonts and sparassodonts to still be around
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

I'd like to see entelodonts.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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