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Birdless world; stronger K-T
Topic Started: Nov 5 2009, 08:41 PM (4,600 Views)
Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

65 million years ago, an asteroid struck Earth and wiped out a good percentage of life on the planet.

Among the extinct were all dinosaurs (save for birds), all air reptiles, all marine reptiles, and a few groups I forgot to mention (I'm not a paleontologist, so if someone were to name all the groups that went extinct, I'd be grateful).



Anyway, what I was wondering was: what if the asteroid had been slightly larger? Large enough to count the birds among those forever buried in the fossil record.

What would the post K-T world be like without birds?

Discuss ideas and possible creatures.


P.S. If you're interested in turning this into an actual project, let me know.
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Carlos
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Its just a suggestion based on the first attempt of crurotarsians of producing ornithomimid like forms. Instead of "ratite crocs" one could have perhaps some sort of running kangaroo like marsupial (possibly descending from flying forms) taking that niche, or a leptictid. In fact I suggest that leptictids are good candidates to produced winged mammals
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

They already hop.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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ATEK Azul
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Thanks for the compliment Canis!

A leptitidium Flyer is possible though I know little about them so I can not determine how possible they are.

And as for the things suggested that were rejected I was actually expecting it but wanted to give some odd suggestions any way.

Also we still need a winged animal with out membrane wings if the polar regions are going to have flyers.

As for Crocodillians I doubt that they will become flyers in sixty five million years with Mammals exploding with out birds to hold them back, though the none flying Crocodillians suggested are possible.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Leptictids were a mammal group that survived the KT, but did not last long into the cenozoic. They mainly ate small reptiles and invertebrates, and the best known, leptictidium, was a hopper from the Messel shales.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Leptictidium fliers?

Hmmm. That would definantly be something to think about.

One advantage of choosing a leptictidium or primate or some arboreal marsupial is that their hand could evolve into the wing. I know bats also have their hands evolved as wings, but with one of the first three choices, you could have a bird-like wing evolving.

Here's what I think the wings may look like for each of the three respective choices (besides bats of course):

Leptictidium: depends on what their hand structure is like. It it is just a four fingered hand without opposable thumbs, then I'm imagining the hand would eventually fuse into a two-fingered hand. Of course, no more seperate fingers: just one finger covered in skin with a lot of muscles attached to the bone.

Primate: I'm thinking the primate hand would go down to just one elongated index finger and an opposable thumb, which is just a claw. The wing would start out as a gliding membrane, then over time, it would become more muscular. The membrane would eventually lose connection to the legs and would become connected to the hips.

Marsupial: I'm thinking the same thing would happen to marsupial wings that would happen to leptictidium wings.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Good work!
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Carlos
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Leptctidium hands were five fingered I think.
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Was one of their fingers opposable?
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Carlos
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No, none of the fingers is opposable
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

Okay then. So instead, the leptictidiums reduce their hand to three fingers instead of two.

Marsupials still reduce their fingers to just two.



So which do you all say is the better flier bet? Primate, leptictidium, or marsupial?
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Carlos
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I think leptictids would make the most interesting fliers. Instead of being gliders like the others they'd probably start as birds, by climbing trees using WAIR until they developed wings capable of making them fly
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Canis Lupis
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

That's one vote for leptictidium, none for primate, and none for marsupial.

I'm not gonna vote, as my vote will obviously be biased.


Any other votes?
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Venatosaurus
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Ooh mammalian birds ! I like the idea of flighted Plesiadapids , or since rodents could get an earlier start, all sorts of primate-like flying rats !



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ATEK Azul
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My vote is for Marsupials taking South America, australian and migratory niches.

But Apes have large brain potential and have good color vision along with aposable toes which give them some advantage especially as smart day time flyers.

Leptitidiums would be unique but I can't say much from my limated knowledge.

And Rodents are more likely than the Leptitidiums but marsupials if they get flying have a reproductive advantage compared to Rodents.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

I imagine leptictids climbing trees and jumping off to glide.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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