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| Birdless world; stronger K-T | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 5 2009, 08:41 PM (4,602 Views) | |
| Canis Lupis | Nov 5 2009, 08:41 PM Post #1 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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65 million years ago, an asteroid struck Earth and wiped out a good percentage of life on the planet. Among the extinct were all dinosaurs (save for birds), all air reptiles, all marine reptiles, and a few groups I forgot to mention (I'm not a paleontologist, so if someone were to name all the groups that went extinct, I'd be grateful). Anyway, what I was wondering was: what if the asteroid had been slightly larger? Large enough to count the birds among those forever buried in the fossil record. What would the post K-T world be like without birds? Discuss ideas and possible creatures. P.S. If you're interested in turning this into an actual project, let me know. |
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| Carlos | Nov 6 2009, 03:10 PM Post #16 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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To be fair, most people here probably rely solely on Wikipedia for information, and Wikipedia is always millions of years out dated |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| sam999 | Nov 6 2009, 03:37 PM Post #17 |
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Adult
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Instead of tarror birds we would have the predator from primal. |
I am not suffering from insanaty. I truely enjoy being mad.![]() ![]() ![]() Comeon, thy dragons need YOU! Visit them here please... | |
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| Carlos | Nov 6 2009, 03:43 PM Post #18 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Nay, we'd had just more sparassodonts |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Holben | Nov 6 2009, 03:47 PM Post #19 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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Choristoderes? |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| The Dodo | Nov 6 2009, 03:59 PM Post #20 |
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Prime Specimen
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They were semi-aquatic reptile, looked kind of like crocodiles except I think they were more closely related to things like lizards. Choristoderes |
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| Holben | Nov 6 2009, 04:01 PM Post #21 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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i know what they are, i'm hoping they pop up. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| Canis Lupis | Nov 6 2009, 05:30 PM Post #22 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Just to clear things up, this topic is not about "What if K-T was stronger?". That was just used as a scenario description. In reality, this topic is about "What if birds were included as extinct after K-T, along with things that were wiped out on HE?". So multies still survive K-T. But how long into the future, I don't know. And omnivorous ceratopsians? I had just gotten used to the fact that most dinosaurs were feathered. Now I've got to deal with this?!! I told you all, I fail at paleontology. Trying to get more knowledge, but I don't know much. Anyway, my be slightly farfetched, but what if primates took a flying niche? |
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| The Dodo | Nov 6 2009, 05:59 PM Post #23 |
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Prime Specimen
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I don't think primates will get to the flying niches since bats seem pretty set to take them. Although there would be room for other flying vertebrates as there are bats and birds today, maybe flying primates could get in. |
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| Carlos | Nov 6 2009, 06:31 PM Post #24 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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I think flying primates would make it. So long as they don't evolve to resemble bats; Spec had an idea of winged, lemur like haplorrhines whose wings were made of feather like hairs, for example. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| ATEK Azul | Nov 6 2009, 09:31 PM Post #25 |
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Transhuman
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Okay so migratory Bats might make it in short yearly warm periods but The winter conditions would kill them since they have membrane wings causing heat loss like crazy. Another thing at the begining of my comment about the Bats I stated "Bats as we know them" which I said because I knew they could evolve new wings or another group would emerge. Flying apes sound plausible but what about less familiar and more primative groups starting to go to the air right after the K-T event? Maybe Marsupials or their South American relatives could give rise to them or even primative carnivorous Ungulates or Notoungulates? or maybe some flying Multituberculates with specialized niches in the air leading Plants to take advantage of their unique dentistry? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Nov 6 2009, 09:51 PM Post #26 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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All interesting suggestions. However, (and this is unbiased. I'm not saying this because I came up with the idea) I bthink the primates would definantly take to the air over the multis. As far as I know, multis weren't arboreal (PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure about this fact). But, as is well known, primates are the king of arboreal. Birds and bats evolved by chasing after bugs. They began to leap through the trees to catch the bugs. Then, to avoid fatal crashes, they began to evolve gliding membranes. Over millions of years, these membranes into full-fledged wings to give the birds and bats better control. Now, I realize that primates are mostly herbivores. Some (especially Paleogene ones) were more insectivorous than modern species. So it is not too far-fetched to imagine that primates would evolve flight to better get at flying insects (it seems like all insectivores who catch fliers evolve gliding membranes or powered flight at some point). If the world gets drier and forests sparser (which happens both on AL (Avian-Less) and HE (Home Earth) during the Eocene), this trait would be especially helpful. Though it may require a drier Ice Age for that to occur. But you're right on the bat deal. Though, of course, it can be done. Bats would just have to evolve some sort of furry covering for the wings. Maybe we ought to look at Metazoica's bat designs. They'd be perfect in this situation.
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| ATEK Azul | Nov 6 2009, 10:19 PM Post #27 |
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Transhuman
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1st: Multituberculates which I beleave had tree forms are not the only things I posted there were about 4 more. 2nd: I doubt fur would solve the membrane issue. And 3rd: JohnFaa will smite us both for saying that Metazoica is an accurate place to look for ideas on a spec evo project even if the forms presented there are the type of solution we need for Polar Bats to evolve with out comming up with some thing new or original. Oh and 4th: Maybe a new group(s) could evolve purely for the Polar flying niches. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Nov 6 2009, 10:39 PM Post #28 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Maybe a new group could evolve. And sorry about ignoring your other suggestions. It's getting late. The marsupials could evolve flying forms. In fact, if they did, they wouldn't have to land much (they could give birth on the fly). That would be a huge advantage if they were migratory. Actually, Atek, I think I'm kind of rolling with the idea. In South America, marsupials had major competition with birds. So, on AL, marsupials basically have the continent to themselves. Which could lead to flying forms and WAMMO! Aerial domination. However, all that is assuming bats don't take over first. As for turning to Metazoica's bats for this, John would only smite us if they were used for a future evo. But in alternate evo like this, they're perfect. Minus the large tail though. |
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| ATEK Azul | Nov 6 2009, 10:59 PM Post #29 |
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Transhuman
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I understand being tired and forgeting stuff I just wanted to make sure they were noticed. I guess your right about him not smiting us if it is alternate instead of future. And you make a good point about their reproduction being an advantage. And if the Birds did hold back South America then we might see a slightly different Faunal interchange infact if Birds are gone maybe the open niches will create a better evolutionary arms race allowing south america to survive better. Also did North America connect to the old world after south america becuase if so and the above change in the fuanal interchange happens it is possible to see the South American Marsupial across most of the world which would be awsome and change even more the world as we know it! |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Nov 6 2009, 11:11 PM Post #30 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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To the best of my understanding, after Pangaea broke up, North America, Europe, and Asia formed Laurasia. Meanwhile, South America, Africa, Antarctica, Australia, and for a time India (I say for a time because India didn't stay attached to Gandwana long) formed Gandwana. So, in effect, South America stayed isolated from North America until the Great Continental Interchange. That's over 200 million years of isolation. And with birds going extinct, I'd imagine that the Great Continental Interchange would a placental ruled continent being mixed with a marsupial ruled continent. Anyway, I'll post a poll of our best candidates for fliers. Candidates are:
Before I begin the poll, however, I'd like us to figure out what advantages these groups have in evolving a flying form, how they'd evolve a flying form, and rate each group on a plausibility scale of 1-10 (1 being "Not gonna happen" and 10 being "I'll bet the farm on that one" (if you don't understand, 1 is least plausible and 10 is most plausible)). But I'm gonna hit the hay, so I'll start that debate thing tomorrow. |
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