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| Raptors on the air | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 28 2009, 05:39 PM (1,078 Views) | |
| Carlos | Sep 28 2009, 05:39 PM Post #1 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Based on a topic I myself started a long time ago, this topic basically is about what if dromeosaurs and troodontids had survived and colonised the air rather than becoming the typical flightless forms we know and love (well, except on insular landmasses, where flightless forms could evolved). The catalyst for this topic was the discovery that Anchiornis was a little flying troodontid rather than a relative of archeoptery (nevermind that Jifengopteryx was once mistaken for an archeopterigyd itself, and I don't know whereas it could glide or fly) and because we all know those basal flying dromeosaurs like Microraptor, Rahonavis and Cryptovolans no explanation is needed towards the possibility of this. In my version of this topic, birds did evolved and diversified, but nonetheless dromeosaurs and troodontids remained as winged forms. Dromeosaurs occupied the niches of birds of prey, ranging from small falcon and hawk analogues to creatures that make eagles look like chickens. I guess the four winged style of manouvering in their case triumphed over the use of tail feathers; their tails would be obviously shorter than those of their ancestors, but obviously still longer than bird tails, as instead of converting into pygotsyles they'd still serve as anchors for leg muscles, and maybe support fans, specially in males. The "hind wings" (basically the legs, which havethose long feathers as in their ancestors) are used for steering instead of the tail, like animals such as Microraptor did. Troodontids will mostly be composed by small omnivores, with bustard and crane like forms; if present unenlagiine dromeosaur will produce crow, stork and secretary bird like forms. Smaller and more acrobatic species will use their legs for steering like dromeosaurs; for larger specis, they'd be used to expand the wing surface lik in the windrunner, though wading forms will probably have featherless legs. Any ideas? |
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| The Dodo | Sep 28 2009, 05:57 PM Post #2 |
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Prime Specimen
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Are they still going to be toothed or are they going to lose them to lighten up? I guess if they kept the sickle claw it could be useful for types such as the unenlagiine dromeosaur secretary bird form. |
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| Carlos | Sep 28 2009, 06:05 PM Post #3 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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It depends on the lifestyle. Troodontids will eagerly loose their teeth, but dromeosaurs (aside from unenlagiines, which would do well with stork like jaws) probably will keep their dentition. Teeth are quite usefull when you're a vertebrate eating carnivore, and while the loss of teeth could occur I'm more inclined to have typical dromeosaurs as being toothed. I in particular have thoughts of fish eating dromeosaurs that make use of needle like teeth like those of ornithocheirids |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Empyreon | Sep 28 2009, 10:59 PM Post #4 |
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Are you plausible?
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Aren't there already flying raptors? Eagles and hawks and such? ![]() Seriously, though, I like the idea of retaining the sickle claw on the foot. Death from above! And if there's any truth behind the pack hunting reputation they have then they would be intense predators (as if they weren't already). |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Carlos | Sep 30 2009, 03:03 PM Post #5 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Because appearently few if any people don't seem to apreciate how interesting it would be a flying dromeosaur analogous to modern, Im going to an essay about my ideas; no one even looks at anything that is mine because everyone hates me, so I can post to myself and edit any of my posts because I don't need to be considerate towards any person who reads this because no one does. Dromeosauridae Having evolved somewhere in the Jurassic, dromeosaurs were at first represented by arboreal genera like Microraptor and Cryptovolans, both capable of flight and probably having been insectivores and small vertebrate predators, flying in dense forests in search of prey; given Microraptor's thin, almost swift like front wings (the "hindwings" were broad and circular), some considerable variation in niches seems to have occured. During the Cretaceous flightlessness was predominant in most of Dromeosauridae, having lost flight and produce predatory terrestrial forms. A particularly weird clade known as Unenlagiinae also evolved; these ones kept flight, and while little is known about Rahonavis the flightless species were stork like in habits. After the KT event terrestrial raptors were exterminated, but the smaller flying forms survived, and while they no longer prodcued significant terrestrial predators (save for some insular forms), they instead diversified as aerial predators, occupying the niches of birds of prey while mammals took the land. Dromeosauridae is divided in two main surviving clades, which occupy distinct ecological niches: Microraptorinae This clade left little to no fossil record during most of the Cretaceous, leaving a wide gap between the early Cretaceous forms and the single Maastrichian North American one. During the Cenozoic, though, they literally exploded in diversity; about 460 modern species exist, divided into three main linages. The primary external feature of microraptorines is their "hindwings" (the legs, which have long wing feathers), which are used in the same way birds use tail feathers, to steer the animal in the air. The tail as obvious is quite longer than in birds, though in some species its still much shorter than those of their ancestors; in these species tail feathers are longer instead. All microraptoriines have teeth in their beaks, which they use to cut flesh or catch prey. Unlike birds, they have two functional oviducts, and so lay always an even number of eggs each time Neomicroraptorinae Composed of the genera Neomicroraptor and Sauroparadisea, it includes a menagerie of forest dwelling species from Southeast Asia and New Guinea. They are the most conservative of ll microraptorines, looking exactly like their remote ancestors. Good tree climbers and relatively reluctant fliers (though quite often seen gliding), they are typically crow sized generalists that feed on insects, small squamates and birds, with the occasional small mammal added to the list. The exact number of species isn't known, due to their dense rainforest habitats. Most knowledge on this group comes from the species Neomicroraptor cuvieri, which occurs in Sulawesi. A typical sized, this one has a black colouration except for the white face and throat, the bright yellow beak and their blue, featherless propatagiums. It forms small flocks and breeds year round, laying 4 to 6 eggs on a nest inside a hollow tree. The chicks leave the nest a week or so after birth, already able to fly. Sexual maturity comes at an age of three and a half years, and it lives about as much as a similar sized parrot. Lariodactylus A genus of about 10 species that diverged from the other microraptorines during the Eocene, right after neomicroraptorines diverged. Its specialised to a pelagic lifestyle akin to that of a frigate bird or a skua, catching prey from the water surface with its needle like teeth, or harassing seabirds. The wings are long and pointy like those of other pelagic soarers; since Microraptor flying dromeosaurrs already used the middle finger, the second finger of the hand, to support the wing feathers, but Lariodactylus was the only dromeosaur to have its claw reduced to the point of vestigiality and to be covered by feathers; the first finger also turned into an allula and "lost" its claw, and only the third finger remained as it was, a clawed digit used for grooming. Because these animals use their winglegs to steer, they can't land in the water, pretty much like frigatebirds and quite likely like the ornithocheiroid pterosaus before them; being useless weight, the tail is the shortest among dromeosauridae, though still slightly longer in proportion to the body size than in birds; it supports a fan of tail feathers, similar to that of a seagull. The sickle claw was lost, since it is useless for an animal that catches prey with its beak. All species nest in rocks or trees like seabirds; the chicks began to fly a week or so after birth, sot it doesn't have to take care of them for a long time as seabirds do. They live for many years, and the largest species only reach sexual maturity at 6 (continues) |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 30 2009, 03:18 PM Post #6 |
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Adolescent
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Hmmm... I like what you've done so far. Might some of the other groups be able to take a few mammalian niches, or flighted versions of said niches? Also, do bats still exist, or are they replaced by bat-niche raptors? |
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| Carlos | Sep 30 2009, 03:21 PM Post #7 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Volaticotheres replaced bats. Some microraptorines might have produced flightless forms occupying cat niches in Australia while flightless unenlagiines put some competition to canine like mammals in South America, but thats it |
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| The Dodo | Sep 30 2009, 05:37 PM Post #8 |
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Prime Specimen
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How large can the flighted Microraptorinae get, I imagine the wings on the back legs would help in soaring. And with the flightless unenlagiines are they kind of like Phorusracids? |
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| Carlos | Sep 30 2009, 05:47 PM Post #9 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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The title for the largest living microraptorine is a tie between the largest species of Lariodactylus (about the size of an albatross) and a haast eagle analogue in New Zealand; since Lariodactylus has proportionally much longer wings in relation to the body it'll probably win |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 30 2009, 05:48 PM Post #10 |
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Transhuman
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Are real Birds still in existence in this world or are the Troodonts and Raptors the only ones in the air related to Dinosaurs? And for the record I like your ideas and the only person that I know dislikes you is not even here any more. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Carlos | Sep 30 2009, 05:51 PM Post #11 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Thanks for liking. Yes, birds are still around, though both flying troodontids and dromeosaurs survived and are doing fine in the Cenozoic |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| The Dodo | Sep 30 2009, 05:54 PM Post #12 |
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Prime Specimen
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So are the birds Neornithes or some other type? |
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 30 2009, 06:02 PM Post #13 |
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Transhuman
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Interesting That could make some interesting differences in Birds and other interacting life forms. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Canis Lupis | Sep 30 2009, 06:06 PM Post #14 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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I like you when your not letting your hate of Metazoica and the pure inaccuracies you still maintain get in the way (like for old projects like WIW, DIA, and various critiques of future evo projects). Anway, this seems like an interesting project. I'm not that big on alternate evo though, so I probably won't contribute much. |
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| Carlos | Oct 1 2009, 02:34 AM Post #15 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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I haven't really thought about birds. I think they are mostly Enantiornithes and Paleognaths, with Apsaraviformes and Galloanserae in the mix |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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