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Vabmojer; Dinosaurimimidae now online. Go to Vabmojer to find out more!
Topic Started: Sep 27 2009, 03:37 PM (4,952 Views)
Ddraig Goch
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Ar hyd y nos

First of all... hi! This is my first post on this forum (wow). Um, yeah. So anyway, about Vabmojer...

Vabmojer is an alien world which I have made with several of my friends. It is an earthlike planet, but we have done our best to make the animals as un-earthlike as possible. We are working on a website, although right now it is not complete. Still, feel free to have a look! (And I apologise in advance for the artwork - I'm not the best drawer ever)

Type this in the address box;

www.vabmojer.bravehost.com

See what you think!
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Ddraig Goch
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Ar hyd y nos

Woah...

Okay, I'll answer two of your questions for now. One, no, the Droph does not have eyes, and two, as to the Dinosaurimimidae page, all I can tell you is soon (hopefully)
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Empyreon
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Are you plausible?

My questions are posted so they can be answered at your leisure.

So if the droph doesn't have eyes, and the trophille clearly does, how do you reconcile their close relation and both the lack/presence of eyes and the number of clawed limbs?
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Ddraig Goch
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Well, aren't different species of dolphin closely related? And yet you have a lot of variation, for example, between river dolphins and oceanic dolphins? (I'm probably wrong about that, but this is what I'm trying to say). When I say "closely realated", I mean more closely related than, say, the Gyrospinte and the Snapjaw.

You said that the Maw-Serent is blind to attack whilst feeding on the ground, and this is certainly true. However, that is why I said that they exude noxious-smelling chemicals whilst feeding, to deter predation. I probavly didn't explain that very well on the site, so I apologise.

As to the Sandmaw, I know very little about cladistics and latin-naming, and so any mistakes there are down to lack of knowledge. As to sand falling into the creatures mouth, I believe that the Common Pitmouth, Chasmostomas vulgaris, of Snaiad, doesn't have this problem. I know they are living in different habitats, but it is still the same principle.

The Maws tongue-biting; I just kinda assumed that they would. After all, their "heads" are really little more than extensions of their digestive systems. Could you please tell me one of the Earth creatures with tongues and maws?

If there is another flying novu, other than the Gyrophel, it has yet to be discovered by the colonists. Also, their venom is meant only to subdue their prey - it is not that which kills the animal. Yes I said that sometimes the venom does kill the prey, but this is usually only when the Gyrophel attacks an already weakened animal.

The retractable breathing tube in the Sand-Maw does not come out of the creatures mouth - it comes out of where the nostrils would be on other Maws. They breathe through these nostrils, which sit at the end of the neck, and are very high up on the creatures body.

Thats all for now. Phew. But hey, thanks for the constructive criticism! Keep it coming! :D (Although preferably in smaller chunks, please!)

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Are you plausible?

Quote:
 
And yet you have a lot of variation, for example, between river dolphins and oceanic dolphins?


My concern here is the idea that branches of life have similar forms. Because the first creatures to crawl onto land on Earth had four limbs, everything that has developed from them has four limbs. Lizards, birds, mammals, etc. So what's the configuration on Vabmojer?

Dolphins are a good example to bring up, however. Cetaceans have lost their hind limbs. However, there are no extant cetaceans that have retained those extra limbs. So yes, river and ocean dolphins are closely related, but they don't have a difference as complex as more/less limbs. Differences like a more streamlined body or differences in sensitivity, but limbs involve bone structure, muscle control, and a nervous system that can accommodate everything requires some serious (and early) deviation in order to develop. To say that drophs and trophilles are distant cousins is like saying lizards and snakes are distant cousins. If you're cool with that kind of connotation that's fine, but it just seems like a bit of a stretch to me.

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However, that is why I said that they exude noxious-smelling chemicals whilst feeding, to deter predation.


Ah, okay. Cool!

Quote:
 
As to the Sandmaw, I know very little about cladistics and latin-naming, and so any mistakes there are down to lack of knowledge.


For the record, it's not unheard of to have two levels of a creature's linnaean classification be the same thing. It can simply mean that this branch of life is particularly narrow, necessitating a single name for both levels, or that the second level is so exemplary of its parent classification that it has the same name.

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As to sand falling into the creatures mouth, I believe that the Common Pitmouth, Chasmostomas vulgaris, of Snaiad, doesn't have this problem.


The Common Pitmouth lives in a jungle, with sprog and other vegetation holding the soil down so wind doesn't blow it to and fro. Sand is a different story, different enough that it would be an issue for the sandmaw. Wind blows and there is little to no vegetation to hold the sand down; itwill fall into its mouth, and the sandmaw will have to deal with that one way or another.

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The Maws tongue-biting...


Perhaps I'm unfamiliar with the mechanisms behind how these maws work, and they would just be too fast to make it back into the mouth without injury. Predators on Earth have tongues in their mouths full of sharp teeth, and manage to keep them in one piece (http://www.ccicards.com/images/products/05-2-lion-job-lg.jpg). It's not a problem that the tongue is outside the mouth (there could be a number of factors putting it out there), I just don't think it's necessary to avoid injury.

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If there is another flying novu, other than the Gyrophel, it has yet to be discovered by the colonists.


Better hurry and get them in some kind of environmental protection before they go extinct too!

Quote:
 
Also, their venom is meant only to subdue their prey - it is not that which kills the animal.


That's all well and good, but it's not what I'm getting at. Subdued prey is easy prey to kill no matter the size of the predator, and flying animals benefit from a smaller size. Unless there's some other factor that requires the gyrophel to be larger than a human (especially with such a proportionally small wingspan) then I think it should be smaller. But that's just my opinion.

Quote:
 
The retractable breathing tube in the Sand-Maw does not come out of the creatures mouth - it comes out of where the nostrils would be on other Maws.


Gotcha. That makes sense then.

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Although preferably in smaller chunks, please!


Alright, but why? Is there something wrong with making a post with both bolk and substance?
Edited by Empyreon, Oct 23 2009, 05:13 PM.
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food for thought
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Ddraig Goch
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Quote:
 
My concern here is the idea that branches of life have similar forms. Because the first creatures to crawl onto land on Earth had four limbs, everything that has developed from them has four limbs. Lizards, birds, mammals, etc. So what's the configuration on Vabmojer?

Dolphins are a good example to bring up, however. Cetaceans have lost their hind limbs. However, there are no extant cetaceans that have retained those extra limbs. So yes, river and ocean dolphins are closely related, but they don't have a difference as complex as more/less limbs. Differences like a more streamlined body or differences in sensitivity, but limbs involve bone structure, muscle control, and a nervous system that can accommodate everything requires some serious (and early) deviation in order to develop. To say that drophs and trophilles are distant cousins is like saying lizards and snakes are distant cousins. If you're cool with that kind of connotation that's fine, but it just seems like a bit of a stretch to me.




I'm sorry - it's not your writing , it's me, but I don't understand this.

Quote:
 
The Common Pitmouth lives in a jungle, with sprog and other vegetation holding the soil down so wind doesn't blow it to and fro. Sand is a different story, different enough that it would be an issue for the sandmaw. Wind blows and there is little to no vegetation to hold the sand down; itwill fall into its mouth, and the sandmaw will have to deal with that one way or another.


Ok. Could you please suggest a way to get around this problem?

Quote:
 
Alright, but why? Is there something wrong with making a post with both bolk and substance?


No, it's just that I get a bit lost as to where to begin when answering it...



EDIT; Does anyone know how to end a poll? Because I don't and that poll attached to this thread has been up a while...
Edited by Ddraig Goch, Oct 24 2009, 06:54 AM.
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Holben
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Remember the land whales?
The Sandmaw, i think he is saying, will have to have a sand filter, like a camel's nostrils.
And uber-long posts, most people just skip them out, because they don't have the time.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Ddraig Goch
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Holbenilord, I haven't a clue what land whales are, or what project they're from.
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Holben
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Erm... it was Life after we're gone, and dolphin evolution.
Sorry, i kinda expect everyone top have kept track of all my posts. Insane.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Ddraig Goch
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Sorry. Which forum is it in?
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Holben
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Evolutionary continuum.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Ddraig Goch
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Thanks.
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I'm sorry - it's not your writing , it's me, but I don't understand this.


On the droph I count eight limbs total, and on the trophille I see eleven (maybe twelve if I assume the one under the jaw is actually two). Eight does not equal eleven, and if you're going to chalk this up to species variation then I'm going to have to assume that the trophille is a very distant cousin. In fact, I'd have to say that the gyrophel is more closely related to the droph than the trophille is, because it has eight limbs and the trophille doesn't. In fact, they're the only two that I would put in the same group for this very reason.

Quote:
 
Ok. Could you please suggest a way to get around this problem?


This sand thing is a simple problem to get around, really. You can do what Holbenilord suggests and have some sort of filter, which could be a membrane of some kind that stretches over the opening (this would give an extra level of camouflage as well, because sand would just cover over the mouth and hide it), or you could have a sort of craw below the mouth's opening that will catch the sand and prevent it from going further down the digestive tract (this system could utilize the sand in some way like gizzard stones or something), or the sandmaw could simply spit out the sand periodically. I doubt that the sand could just be swallowed by the animal, because that would probably be damaging to its system.

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And uber-long posts, most people just skip them out, because they don't have the time.


Well, I take the time to write it all because Ddraig Coch asked for feedback and because I feel like the ideas I post are more complete if I take the time to explain them. If somebody is too pressed for time to read the post it will be around later for when they do have time. If that never happens, then they can read it a little bit at a time until finished. If they can't do that, then they probably aren't interested enough in the first place. And usually the best place to start in responding to these kinds of things is at the beginning and work sequentially.
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Ddraig Goch
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Quote:
 
On the droph I count eight limbs total, and on the trophille I see eleven (maybe twelve if I assume the one under the jaw is actually two). Eight does not equal eleven, and if you're going to chalk this up to species variation then I'm going to have to assume that the trophille is a very distant cousin. In fact, I'd have to say that the gyrophel is more closely related to the droph than the trophille is, because it has eight limbs and the trophille doesn't. In fact, they're the only two that I would put in the same group for this very reason.


Right! I see now. Problem is, I won't be able to do anything about this on the site for at least two weeks. What do you propose is the best course of action? Taking away two of the Trophille's hydraulic hind legs? (Although that would make it less well balanced)
Or adding another pair of legs onto the Droph?

Quote:
 
This sand thing is a simple problem to get around, really. You can do what Holbenilord suggests and have some sort of filter, which could be a membrane of some kind that stretches over the opening (this would give an extra level of camouflage as well, because sand would just cover over the mouth and hide it), or you could have a sort of craw below the mouth's opening that will catch the sand and prevent it from going further down the digestive tract (this system could utilize the sand in some way like gizzard stones or something), or the sandmaw could simply spit out the sand periodically. I doubt that the sand could just be swallowed by the animal, because that would probably be damaging to its system.



I like the idea of the membrane - a bit like the Deathbottle plant from TFIW. How could I make it work, though?
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Holben
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Making legs simpler and smaller? Then there is more chance of new ones.

A membranous flap with muscle anchors, perhaps?
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

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Ddraig Goch
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I can't relly make the legs smaller, because otherwise they'll collapse. The Droph's are quite large, y'know.
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