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| Airsacs in bats | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 11 2009, 02:42 PM (991 Views) | |
| Carlos | Sep 11 2009, 02:42 PM Post #1 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Probably an idea you might be tired of hearing from me, but that I think its quite interesting. Modern bats, being mammals, have the typical mammalian pulmonary system; the fact that they lack the complex air sac system of birds and pterosaurs pretty much means they have a largely unpneumatized skeleton. That, coupled with the limitations on the respiratory system itself (the ribs are completly fixed unlike in other mammals, thus they rely solely on the diaphragm to fill and empty the lungs; although they have lungs more efficient at absorving oxygen than other mammals, they still can't expand much, and more energy is used when breathing), renders bats as being more limited than birds and pterosaurs in their size, and as a result in lifestyles. Therefore, I came with a way of solving this problem, which may or may not be accurate so I think I will need advise from more experient people. The mammalian pulmonary system can't evolve into a one identical to that of birds - the avian lungs don't contract, only the adjacent air sacs do so, leaving the lungs always in the same shape, for example, and thats the tip of the iceberg - so mammalian air sacs would work in a way different from that of birds. Initially they likely evolved as extensions of the lungs, probably as means of absorving oxygen more efficiently, either expanding the surface area of the lung or simply serving as oxygen pockets to replenish the lungs. Eventually, connections with the skeleton would occur as in birds and pterosaurs, and eventually like in large flying birds and pterosaurs the air sac system could expand into the propatagium and afterwards into the main patagia as in azhdarchids and ornithocheiroids, thus not only pneumatizing the wing bones but also allowing them to inflate the wing membranes. Besides reducing body weight, the airsacs would be usefull for bats because they could have broader, stronger bones; due to the fact the bat skeleton is in modern species largely unpneumatized, they have thin, fragile limb bones. With a pneumatic skeleton the wing bones could become larger and stronger as in pterosaurs, thus not only allowing bigger sizes to be achieved more easily but decreasing the risk of limb injury. I currently designed two groups of bats that developed airsacs independently: the Aendochiroptera and the Neovespertilionidae. The first evolved from the flying foxes, and have a quite complex air sac system, having reached big sizes and becoming analogous in terms of ecological niches with pterodactyloids besides the typical frugivorous and omnivorous forms. The other evolved from modern vesper bats, and still have a rudimentary air sac system, not really being that different from their modern ancestors |
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 14 2009, 06:00 PM Post #2 |
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Transhuman
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This sounds very plausible and would be a great accomplishment for Bats maybe to the point of giving them that edge to start out competing Birds or at least start becomming bigger and filling nocturnal versions of niches normally controlled by Birds during the day and diversifying. |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Troy Troodon | Jan 2 2017, 01:38 PM Post #3 |
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Prime Specimen
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I've actually been wondering that myself; Why haven't bats evolved a similar skeletal or even organic structure to pterosaurs or birds if they had evolved powered flight?! |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Vorsa | Jan 2 2017, 02:00 PM Post #4 |
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Mysterious tundra-dwelling humanoid
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My Deviantart: http://desorages.deviantart.com/ Birbs "you are about to try that on a species that clawed its way to the top of a 4 billion year deep corpse pile of evolution. one that has committed the genocide you are contemplating several times already. they are the pinnacle of intelligence-based survival techniques and outnumber you 7 billion to 1" - humans vs machine | |
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| Troy Troodon | Jan 2 2017, 03:02 PM Post #5 |
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Prime Specimen
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Sorry; I just found this and thought it was interesting. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Carlos | Jan 2 2017, 07:30 PM Post #6 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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In retrospect, it's the limitations of the mammalian tidal lung. You can't get space for airsacs with a diaphragm on the way, after all. |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Jaxuar | Jan 4 2017, 02:53 AM Post #7 |
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Fetus
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I have a question, Why would bats need to developed airsacks? even if it was convergent evolution how would it developed airsacks in the first place? it would depend on the activities it does in a regular basis to have options that it will provide it the most efficient way to survive in the wild, I do not see how becoming larger is necessary to survive as most bats are doing just fine, unless a species of bat tries to specialize on prey that is large compared to the size of the bat. (I wonder if bats could develop pack hunting behaviour) I hope this information helps.
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| Troy Troodon | Jan 6 2017, 11:18 PM Post #8 |
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Prime Specimen
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Frankly what I think bats really need are hollow bones for a stronger or more durable skeletal structure, that way some of them could even be as big as eagles. |
| I was benevolent and good, but misery made me a fiend! | |
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| Dakka! | Jan 6 2017, 11:55 PM Post #9 |
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Prime Specimen
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I you can't get big, get more. Why should bats need to change anything physically? Just develop pack hunting behaviour and the spectrals will have it made! |
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"I was a Psychiatrist in Florida! For 3 weeks! Have you ever been to Florida?" Some project ideas The Future is Right Ediacaran Explosion Great Old Ones Skinkworld Unrelated:The Final Spec:What Could Have Been, And Still Can | |
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| Jaxuar | Jan 7 2017, 03:06 AM Post #10 |
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Fetus
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I hope this is useful, if you want to read the rest of the information then click the link below.
Maybe spectral bats could develop larger claws to latch on prey. ![]()
Edited by Jaxuar, Jan 7 2017, 03:11 AM.
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