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Strange Generator; Something I've been pondering
Topic Started: Sep 7 2009, 04:21 PM (1,592 Views)
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Yes, that is scientifically accurate. Admittedly, the idea that half the shell has to be lost into the singularity is incorrect, the entire thing could be launched, though it might be more difficult to launch the whole thing instead of half.

That's probably one of the best thought out weapons in any science fiction story I've ever heard of.

I will say this about the Stargate series, even though the movie screwed it up, the series itself did great work with the gate. It might have been on accident, but they have describe the basics of how the device would have to work:
1. Matter is converted to energy.
2. It is transported through a wormhole.
3. It is then reorganized back into matter.
Sounds a bit complicated, and they never do pull this out on the show, but for a wormhole to actually carry someone or something the size of, well, let's say a matchbox car, tiny right? Well, the wormhole would have to be miles in diameter to work. A full sized human? The size would be staggering. Turning it into a laser and pointing it through the wormhole would probably require less sophisitcated technology and far less energy then creating a stable wormhole the size of kingdom come for you to just 'step-through'.

Then there's Doctor Who... gah. I know it's technically Scientific Fantasy, but holy crap... ignoring the Time Lord technology, regeneration, and so on, you'd think a few thinks would connect to reality. Nope. The main one that irritates me (still does) Satan's Pit. Basically, the Doctor say it's impossible for a planet to orbit a black hole. I actually, just to calm down, stopped and explained to my mom (also a fan who was watching) how much BULLSHIT that actually is. I know it's fantasy, but some of the stuff they could actually TRY to get right.
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The trouble is they are based on earth and if one breaks out of it's container, which is possible given how the Congolese are using them as rubbish dumps and sewers and incinerators for disease victims, and generators. They keep getting heavier and heavier and if they fall into the earth our days are numbered.
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... Oh, never mind what i said about being well thought out.

First, for the effect you described, they can't be on Earth with out also having more mass than the Earth. It would be like shooting a metal bullet out of a rail-gun, the second magnetic force is so strong everything stays where it is. Well, the Earth would actually keep the ammunition from moving, it would just fall down, unless the black hole has enough gravity to throw off the Earth's orbit, which would be a lot more logical problem then that. I thought it was in space, my bad.

Second, how the bloody 'ell is a container going to contain gravity?? If it's a future tech, I'll let this go, but still... that's pretty pathetic.

Third, I have no idea how much mass a black hole needs to stay stable, not enough and it's gone in a flicker, plus with new matter being fed in the stability does make since. But it keeps getting heavier? Really? Stephen Hawkins would throw a fit. Hawkings Radiation is the stuff that causes black holes to fade away, it has a lot to do with the Casmir effect. The point is, I don't think it would just keep getting heavier, if it did, stop feeding it for a while. Problem solved, the singularity would fade away pretty quick at our size.

Black holes aren't just these 'rips' we pretend (well, odds are) they are just highly concentrated amounts of matter, with enough matter, to create the event horizon. That's all. They age and die, like everything else in nature. The smaller they are, the shorter their life.

How did the story end? I'm curious to how they solved the problem.
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They did not, the protagonist from the UN told the Congolese man he had been working with that every tinpot dictator wants one and that there is no way to know if a black hole currently pinging about in the earth's core. The Congolese chap shoots himself and the protagonist is just glad he does not have to clean up the mess like he did back in Quebec.
You can fine it here, physics aside it's a pretty good story.
http://escapepod.org/2006/06/01/ep056-the-clockwork-atom-bomb/
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Well, that's a listen only version. I never have liked listening to stories on the net.

Anyway, since we already got to discussing how science and science fiction clash, let's focus on something that's been brought up. Vacuum Energy, the greatest tool the Ancients of Stargate ever came up with, the goal of pseudo-scientists the world over, and the most dangerous thing ever if it can actually work.

First, Vacuum energy is based on the idea that the universe is presently a false vacuum, or, not a vacuum but looks a lot like one. According to this unproven theory (well, some say the Casmir Effect supports it, I don't) there is a tiny bit of extra energy, keeping it above being a real vacuum, evenly distributed across the universe.

Now, if we could tap into this some would say it would be an infinite supply of free-energy. This is true, since it's all over the place. Then again, it would also lead to death of everything in the universe. If we tapped into the energy, the area would suddenly lower in energy level, becoming a true vacuum. Not good, since from here, this loss of energy would spread. The entire universe would become a true vacuum.

NOT GOOD. If the universe is presently a false vacuum, then that would influence every possible action and reaction, every chemical reaction, everything from the Quantum to Astro-physical level. If it was suddenly became a true vacuum, this would lead to all these constants to change, we don't know into what, but it would change. Even the slightest flux in these constants, like the size of a proton to the influence of a fundamental force, would stop any biology that evolved now to stop working then. It could stop star development. It could cause planets to change orbits, it could even cause the basic fundamental particles to loose stability, and atoms no longer exist. Like I said NOT GOOD. Screw the Big Rip, this is the most disturbing end our universe could have.

Or couldn't. We could already be in a true vacuum. If so, vacuum energy is a load bullox.

(should we create a seperate thread about these science fiction blunders? Because there is a lot that should be corrected)
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Yeah I did not until I found Escape Pod. If audio fiction is good enougth for Stephen Fry it's good enough for me.

To be far to Stargate attempts to extract vacuum energy are rarely easy or safe, and only work when you extract it from another universe.

I don't get how it would work though. To extract energy you need there to be an imbalance of energy. You can't use hydroelectric power on a lake. Is the Vacuum energy the same everywhere?
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Yes, but most of the ideas work on creating an imbalance with an outside force, which should create a long term energy syphon siphon sinkhole sort of thing, drawing energy in constantly as the universe 'fixes' it. Think of it like using an air conditioner to cool down a room, and then hoping to use heat flowing back into the room to power something.

Only, the universe isn't destroyed when heat flows back in. With vacuum energy, it is.

And no, it wouldn't even work if you extract it from another universe. For you to get something in a steady flow from one universe to another, you need some constant access between the two. Through this 'access' the true vacuum effect could still get into the universe. If the energy pulsed, it would work (opening it for a moment to get energy and closing it to stop the vacuum. However the other universe would require different physics for that to work, and then that can cause a brand new set of problems).

Then there is when Rodney tried to do it in the same universe. Random particles? Good grief.

And the vacuum energy is used all the time by the Ancients. In every episode of Atlantis something is running of Vacuum Energy (Atlantis runs on a ZPM).
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The ZPM's have little pocket universes in them if I remember correctly.

At least it is harder than most SF you get on TV or in films.

I wonder if it is possible to make a solar wind turbine?
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lamna
Sep 8 2009, 06:11 PM
the Democratic People's Republic of Congo used one in the story to lob artillery shells at the People's Democratic Republic of Congo. Or was it the other way round?
lol, sounds like a good story...
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It's more about after the war and recovering from it.
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Sep 12 2009, 01:22 PM
The ZPM's have little pocket universes in them if I remember correctly.

At least it is harder than most SF you get on TV or in films.

I wonder if it is possible to make a solar wind turbine?
Being a 'pocket universe' doesn't fix the problem.

And yes, it's a lot better done then most sci-fi on television. That's why I hold it to a higher standard (it's one of the two series that got me interested in physics).

A solar wind turbine, yeah. It would be no different then a regular wind turbine or underwater turbine, but finding the right materials for it would be hard. Get the wrong equipment and you'd be repairing it pretty often (heat is the obvious problem, and then micrometeors)
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Yeah and the solar wind as I understand it is pretty weak so weight would be an issue, particularly if it was ground based.

But on a space craft perhaps it could provide power and propulsion.
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Well, they very in strength depending on how close you are to the star.

For thrust, maybe if you stay in the right distance. But the energy requirements of a space ship, depending on what all is on it, to get it moving is high. Get to far away and I doubt the solar winds would be strong enough (the reason we think of using solar sails is because light doesn't loose power as it moves).

I'd imagine it as more for a space station then a craft.
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How about on the moon's peaks of eternal light?

But it would have to be more powerful that solar panels.
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It might work, but I don't know. For some reason I can't help think that when the moon moves behind the Earth, the magnetic field might screw it up.

Now, here's an idea. All we need to generate electricity is a spinning Electro-magnetic field, the Earth has one. We can't use it on Earth, since relative to us it isn't moving, but from orbit, would it be possible? I can't see why not, but I've never heard of a scientist discussing it as an option, so...
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