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The Moment We've All Been Waiting For!; Finally, something to kill PETA
Topic Started: Sep 3 2009, 04:28 PM (804 Views)
Ànraich
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http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20327243.400-painfree-animals-could-take-suffering-out-of-farming.html

Farm animals genetically engineered to have no feeling of pain could be the next big leap in modern agriculture. For decades we've been debating the ethical and moral implications of factory farming and mass-slaughtering animals. And finally someone has had the common sense to just say "fuck it, I'll just take the pain away entirely."

Of course PETA will also probably label this as "unethical" and "immoral," but I guess we could just re-engineer them without tongues, now couldn't we?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.

PETA gets pissed at everything. Just ignore them.


But this is an okay idea. What I'm wondering is why someone didn't think of a cheaper way to do this: anesthesia.
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lamna
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Glory, Glory Hallelujah. This sounds like a great idea.

But isn't pain important for an animal to live. Can you remove it and still have the animal feel?

Also it would mean electric fences were all but useless. Animals might hurt themselves on them if they don't know they are leaning on one, or the might just walk though a fence. Same with barbed wire, cattle might tear themselves to shreds not noticing it.

EDIT: Because selling meat full of lethal chemicals is a bad idea. Gassing animals with a pure nitrogen environment is not only painless, it's pleasurable.
Edited by lamna, Sep 3 2009, 06:15 PM.
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Ànraich
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Who cares how well they operate without pain? They're only grown to be killed anyways, it's not like survival is an issue.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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lamna
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Well it would ruin the leather, escaped animals can cause a heck of a lot of trouble and an animal shredded on barbed wire or burnt on electric fences is going to be great propaganda for PETA and their ilk.

Also, what if your prize bull does not notice that he just ripped his testicles off? Bull semen makes oil look like water the prices it can fetch.

You are also going to notice infections and injuries more slowly because the animal won't notice them and will lose more animals that way.
And a dead animal is a waste of money, animals that don't feel pain are less likely to notice being killed and less likely to do something about it.
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Well, this is great, but I still don't think we should keep our food animals in confined areas, as they could still get bored, even though they are grown to be eaten.

But a solution to growing a whole animal just to eat its muscles would probably be mass-growing specific parts in-vitro, or nanotechnologically producing our food.
Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Sep 3 2009, 07:16 PM.
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Canis Lupis
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Maybe do what scientists are trying to do with humans for organ transplant: organ printing. Print, or clone, a cow's muscles so that you have a fairly unlimited supply of cow meat.
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Um, yeah I don't think it's a fantastic idea, I mean why don't we make sweat shops workers not feel pain or fatigue ! Why don't we just move on to synthetic food rather than raising animals with proper brain functions as food, yes people care about how these animals are treated, they're going to be killed so why don't we make their life as comfortable as we can or better yet, stop slaughtering the poor thing and move on to nutritious, delicious synthetic foods, no more bad fats, lean foods packed with proper vitamins... Imagine eating something with the same look, smell, taste as steak, but packed with essential vitamins, no fat, and far less fewer calories and for some a clean conscience, plus food shortages wouldn't be a problem, nor starvation, malnutrition, allergies or room taken up to raise/grow food... Pain is part of life and we'd be taking that from them, say what you want, but as an avid animal lover, I say this is pretty fucked up !



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Ànraich
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We've tried that. Artificial crab tastes like plastic, because that's what it is. I do like the idea of growing them though. If we're going to remove their ability to feel pain, we might as well remove all brain capacity and simply mass produce "non programmed" cattle. After all, we mass produce everything else, why not our food?
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Why don't we use somewhat of a "bio-cattle", using something similar to stem cell research and growing the cells to just produce meat, that way it's not a living organism but rather the muscle mass, that way no animal would be harmed in the making, we would even be able to control it's nutritional value, and boom, no more animal pain, heathly food, overall producing a happy, healthy population if humans and non-humans ^_^



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lamna
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Because it is very very difficult to do that. We can do it at the moment, but you end up with a meaty jelly rather than a hunk of muscle, though it looks like something we can expect in the next century. Probably in the next 2 decades.
Of course it's not "natural" and will have a hard time starting to get popular.

As we why not create sweat shop workers without pain. Because they are people and you can't use people are equipment.
Besides sweatshops are not as bad as people tend to think they are. They are hardly paradise, but it beats subsistence farming with nightsoil. Of course it's not as pretty for us rich people to look at, and the image of people working in fields is much more romantic than working in a factory. And isn't that what really matters? What we think is a better life for them, not what those stupid people chose to do?
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We can't treat animals as equipment either ! And I think we should try to come up with alternatives, and I think a great way of getting peoples attention would be to showcase how something as delicious and fatty as steak could be made into something as healthy as , I don't know all the essential vitamins or fruit whatever. It's possible, but this no pain treatment, no, it doesn't sound good, and I hope people protest, cause if not than we've really gotten low !



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We can't treat animals as equipment either !


Of course we can. That's why many of them exist now. Food is why even more exist.

Think about it this way: We start artificially growing beef, we no longer need cattle. Not many people want a cow or a bull as a pet, and out of those only few have the room to do it. We no longer need the cattle, as we no longer eat it, use it's leather, or (eventually) it's milk. So what do you think happens to the cattle?

Economically we can't take care of them any longer because it isn't an investment, obviously we won't be able to sell them, so not many options show up. I can't help but imagine the cattle going free and immediatly ripped to shreds by the native predators, both in deep pain and terrified (they aren't exactly built for the wild anymore).

When we kill them for food, we can releive the pain and fear (sadly this isn't always the case, but it should be), so in a way, devouring them is more humane.

The same can be said for many livestock, I've been surrounded by them all my life. Many can't make it without a farmer, and the farmer can't make it without a profit. If the profit goes, so does (most) livestock.
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lamna
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I doubt you could make meat like fruit. That would be fruit.

Besides fats are important, you can't take them out of everything.

I hope they don't protest are annoying and rarely achieve anything. Let the vote with their wallets. If nobody buys it, it won't be made.

EDIT
After livestock become obsolete, they won't all die. Numbers will be reduced which is handy, more room for man and nature but it won't be abandoned. In almost every way automobiles are have replaced the horse, yet people keep them around. People will want to keep cattle as pets, they already do. It's called hobby farming. And people will keep farming for prosperity in living museums.
Edited by lamna, Sep 4 2009, 07:43 AM.
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That's sad how we treat these farms animals as we would objects ! AS for protestors, we can agree there, the more radical and annoying it is, the less it will be taken seriously and the less of an affect it would have ! As for the fruit-meat thing, I meant make it as healthy as such health food but with the same great taste, there has to be an easy way to create such food that can be grown, without having to live. Anyway, I doubt this could happen, the animals when try to escape would seriously hurt themselves and not even realize...unless we introduce something into the animals bloodstream before it is slaughtered, something that would take away the pain and give a sense of a high, that way the animal dies painless and super happy, but as I said alternatives are possible, it's just we're too lazy to look for such a thing XD



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