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| Amphibination; Part 3 now up | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,322 Views) | |
| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM Post #1 |
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Adolescent
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna). The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog. The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded. The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...) Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist). Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with: Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names) Order: Scale rats These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches. Class: Mammaloraniformes Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better) These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass). Class: Lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?) Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think? Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 04:01 PM Post #106 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Well most likely no more mammaloranaformes, but just because we're most likely only going to use 'stem-tetrapods' and their reptiliomorph descendants, doesn't mean things won't get interesting. As for the dragonfly-bit, it was a suggestion from Nemo, and I'm sure if he responds back, he'll come up with some good explanations ! Here's his e-mail for those of you who can't grasp the awesomeness ! XD From Nemo-Ramjet: "Thanks for your invitation! I'd definitely like to help you. An amphibian world is an awesome project, but there are so many variables with "amphibians." In a way, it can be said that all living vertebrates are amphibians, since they are descendants of those animals. So, it becomes inevitable for "just weird mammals" or "just weird reptiles" to emerge as results of this experiment. You already have "mammalianaformes" in this world, which proves my point. Perhaps a more exciting idea would be to design a world that is geographically suitable to the "amphibian" lifestyle as we know it. Imagine Earth has something with its land masses, so that the world is like one gigantic Aegean sea. Lots of medium size islands, scattered evenly across one world-spanning, shallow sea. Of course there could be a couple of small island continents or an occasional deep sea trench. Life emerges from the water, but develops VERY differently. In this world, amphibians could truly dominate the biosphere as -amphibians!- and not derived forms like ur-mammals, etc. There could be giant, amphiuma-mosasaurs in the oceans. The lands could have venomous, snake like aistopods, erect legged giant land newts that hunt on land but return to the seas, armored and sail-backed forms that move between land and sea with equal ease. With the millions of islands, specitation would go berserk! Imagine a mass of five-meter things like giant, stocky marine iguanas, completely covering an island beach with their hulking bodies. Thick liquid, full of eggs, streams down in rivulets into the life-teeming ocean. Tiny, crab-like "frogs" move about on their backs. Giant, ornithopter-like dragonflies, with strut-like wings spanning six meters or more, fly among the terrestrial giants, feeding on dead skin and excrement. Out in the sea, an unimaginably big "snake" blows water to the sky, undulating and coiling before disappearing back. Just a glimpse. But there's no reason for there not to be more! "
Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 10 2009, 04:02 PM.
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 10 2009, 04:25 PM Post #107 |
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Transhuman
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That sounds awsome I don't want to wait lol. Also I know what an Ornithopter is but what does he mean by Ornithopter Dragonflys? Also what would plants be like in a saline Island planet? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Carlos | Sep 10 2009, 04:30 PM Post #108 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Indeed, I always had a thing for marine amphibians. Guess my twisted imagination will have one wish granted |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 04:37 PM Post #109 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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![]() As for ornithopter, I believe he meant something such as the image shown above, but I'm not entirely sure. And as stated there will be several salt water tolerable species, some of which thrive in such waters, such as the Litus (name may change) that are penguin-like frogs, which use spear-like tongues to catch fish, since their forearms are small clawed stumps. As for plants, I'm not sure, but some will be quite strange, combing plant-life from the Carboniferous and the odd plants found in Australia, with a few more 'alien' flora featured ! |
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 10 2009, 04:47 PM Post #110 |
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Transhuman
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That is the type of Ornithopter I was thinking of but I am having a hard time picturing what you are doing to the Dragonflies to make them Ornithopter-like especialy since Ornithopters are based on animals including Dragonflies yet the animals are more effective which makes me wonder what you would gain? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 04:58 PM Post #111 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Reason why we are going to ask Nemo, I guess his ideas are just too out-there for us little people to imagine XD Same goes to the crab-like "frogs" he mentioned, and to a lesser degree, the erect-legged giant newts. |
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| Carlos | Sep 10 2009, 05:02 PM Post #112 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Because ornithopter means "bird wing", maybe Nemo meant dragonflies with articulated wings? |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 05:05 PM Post #113 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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That's another possibility that I thought of as well, I mean with several hundred million years to evolve and refine their flying tactics, it is possible that he meant that ! It'd be great if he gave us a little image to help out a bit with his description, how awesome would that be !!! |
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| Carlos | Sep 10 2009, 05:06 PM Post #114 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Regarding plants don't forget tree like club mosses and seed ferns, two groups that are pretty much dead nowdays |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 05:15 PM Post #115 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Club moss trees will be mostly found in swampy and cold forest zones, looking something like this While tree ferns will mostly be found in tropic zones, cold forests, possibly coastal beaches, along with strange looking scrubland/savanna forms akin to this image... http://www.hollyforsyth.com.au/content_images/1/tree%20ferns%20Mt%20Wilhelm_final%20lo%20res.jpg Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 10 2009, 05:16 PM.
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| Carlos | Sep 10 2009, 05:27 PM Post #116 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Are those ferns in the picture in Australia? |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 10 2009, 05:30 PM Post #117 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Papua New Guinea, oh and I forgot to mention, tree ferns may also be present in some mountainous areas. |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 11 2009, 04:08 PM Post #118 |
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Adolescent
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Hello! Here are two ideas I had for an underwater dark zone in the new amphibian dominated world: Red cap These are shouling fish, about the size of home earth lantern fish. Coloured red or with lights being generated along their flank, these creatures feed on zooplankton and on underwater snow falling from the light zone above. You'll therefore be surprised to know that these are infact a small form of shark, most similar to basking sharks from home earth. False anglers These creatures are the most common predators of the deep sea ecosystems, though few are apex predators. These creatures use a mixture of their front fins and muscular tail to move through the water, with most attracting their prey with use of a photoluminescent tip of the tongue. Imagine the surprise of the scientist who found that these were infact neonatal lissamphibians, who evolved dry skin and salt glands to deal with salt water and have a highly reduced skeleton to deal with the high pressures that are experianced in the depths. The creatures in this family also have an extendable stomach, allowing them to swallow creatures as large as themselves. However, most of their larvae are scavengers, filling the niche of hagfish. One genus of false anglers has a bizarre adaptation to deep sea life: a parasitic larval stage. The larva cling to the eyes of squid, octopi, and some fish, eating both the eyes and the skin and flesh around it. Due to squid and octopi growing to large sizes, it means that most predators will leave them alone. Some species even have a symbiotic relationship with certain forms of blind fish: the larvae feed on it's useless eyes whilst attracting prey to the creature with lights dancing across it. I am unsure of the plausibility of eye eating larvae (it was inspired by the parasites that eat the eyes of greenland shark in real life), but it was fun writing it all the same. I will come up with more, as soon as I can decide what else to chuck down there... |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 11 2009, 04:12 PM Post #119 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Awesome descriptions !!! I love the idea of parasitic amphibians !!! |
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| ATEK Azul | Sep 11 2009, 05:25 PM Post #120 |
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Transhuman
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Those 2 iedas are good even if they are strange, I like them. Also since Carboniferous Plants are alive do the trees from that time take palm tree niches since they look simular? Also do flowering Plants evolve? Oh and what will happen to Fungie and Lichen? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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