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| Amphibination; Part 3 now up | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,324 Views) | |
| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM Post #1 |
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Adolescent
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna). The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog. The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded. The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...) Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist). Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with: Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names) Order: Scale rats These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches. Class: Mammaloraniformes Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better) These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass). Class: Lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?) Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think? Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| StinglessBee | Sep 6 2009, 01:56 PM Post #76 |
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Adolescent
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You also deserve praise for the Yoshis, hairy slime birds, and squirtles, as well as several other things which have yet to be posted here. Anyway, an update: Class: lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Ranasalarius (common name: beach frogs) These are a family of frogs that have evolved a tolerance to salt water. They do this by creating more urea, and by sneezing out excess salts from a gland in the mouth. Most of these creatures are small, eating small crustaceans and flies that eat rotting sea weed when the tide is out. However, several species are relatively large, and dive into rock pools to catch fish which have been stranded within them. Others specialise in eating crabs and coastal trilobites. These creatures all hide in burrows near the shore whilst the tide is in. In these burrows, they give birth to live young, which come out as miniature versions of adults. These are found throughout the world (including in Antarctica, where they feed mostly on springtails, but also scavenge on carcasses on land). Not much, but hey, at least it's an update. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 6 2009, 02:02 PM Post #77 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Awesome ! But Anarctica, my goodness, how could frogs adapt and survive in such a place, it's freezing and when not in the water, it's rather dry ! |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 6 2009, 02:21 PM Post #78 |
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Adolescent
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Well, they could warm themselves beside sleeping mammaliranaformes, burrow to escape the cold, allow themselves to freeze in winter, and all of the other amphibian tricks. For the water, well as they scavenge on carcasses perhaps they could drink the blood of the corpse or even literally bathe in it. As a final, even more disgusting suggestion... if the mammaliranaformes produced guano, wouldn't that contain some liquid... |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 6 2009, 02:43 PM Post #79 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Eww gross XD well if frogs manage to occur here, which I'm still a bit iffy on (though the summer time isn't too bad for them), they'd be quite large animals covered in thick layers of fat ! |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 6 2009, 02:57 PM Post #80 |
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Adolescent
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By living in Antartica, I meant it's peninsula. That should be slightly less extreme than what you may have been thinking (land living plants can survive there, together with springtails, mites, e.t.c.). I reckon it could survive winter and nightfall by a) digging very deep, communal burrows (small species can dig surprisingly deep burrows, a kingfisher, about the same size as the Antartic beach frog, digs burrows that can be over a metre deep), b) having a natural antifreeze in it's blood and muscles (a common adaptation in amphibians and fish that live in or near the Artic/Antartic circles) and c) these things could easily be at least semi-warmblooded. Still, if it doesn't seem plausible, then it can be dropped at no real consequence. |
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| KayKay | Sep 6 2009, 03:04 PM Post #81 |
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Adult
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StinglessBee, are you ok with me posting some illustrations to help visualise the project better? I've been reading your ideas with great interest.
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| StinglessBee | Sep 6 2009, 03:06 PM Post #82 |
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Adolescent
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Go right ahead! You'd be doing me a really big favour!
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 6 2009, 03:12 PM Post #83 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Yeah Kay ! As for the frogs I was going to suggest they occur on the peninsula. Though the beach frogs would have skin akin to a toads, that way their skin is slightly more resistant to the salinity and the frigid temperatures. |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 6 2009, 03:13 PM Post #84 |
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Adolescent
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Good idea! |
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| The Dodo | Sep 7 2009, 01:46 AM Post #85 |
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Prime Specimen
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The Antartica frog could use glucose anti-freeze like the Wood Frog to cope with the freezing temperatures. |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 7 2009, 06:03 AM Post #86 |
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Adolescent
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That is the plan. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 7 2009, 09:07 AM Post #87 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Yup, along with a thick layer of body fat ! When you stated that some frog species will use their tongues as display organs (maybe this family can be called Flabellulinguas or Fan-Tongues), which could even be used to fend off predators, but I also thought of something, a group of frogs known as Spear-Tongues, with have tongues tipped with either keratin or sharp caullouses, these essentially stab their prey and make an effective kill. These animals could be rather large ranging from Goliath Frog-sized to something the size of Badger. |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 7 2009, 02:51 PM Post #88 |
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Adolescent
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That is a very good idea. Maybe they could have an ectoparasitic relative, that uses a highly modified tongue to rip bite sized mouth fulls of large herbivores. Or, going further down the ectoparasite line, maybe the frog equivelent of a vampire bat, which uses it's tongue to open a wound in sleeping creatures before drinking the blood of it's victim.
Edited by StinglessBee, Sep 7 2009, 03:20 PM.
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 7 2009, 03:55 PM Post #89 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Awesome ideas !!! Vampire-Toads ! |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 7 2009, 04:24 PM Post #90 |
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Adolescent
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Cool: we have another family of creatures! Perhaps we should have the ectoparasitic lineage being a subfamily within the spear tongue family. Though, judging by the size of real life vampire bats, they'd have to be slightly smaller than their predatory relatives. One last note before I head to bed (it's my first day of college tomorrow, and I don't want to wake up ridiculously sleepy): where should these live? I was thinking that as warrior toads will be mostly northern hemisphere, these could be mostly southern hemisphere. Or maybe they could live side by side by going after different prey and by using different techniques? (maybe we could have a frog version of the Serengeti, filled with predatory frogs instead of lions, leapards and others) Anyway, I figured you might have a good idea of where to place them. |
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