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Amphibination; Part 3 now up
Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,326 Views)
StinglessBee
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna).

The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog.

The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded.

The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...)

Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist).

Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with:

Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names)
Order: Scale rats

These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches.

Class: Mammaloraniformes
Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better)

These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass).

Class: Lissamphibian
Order: Anura
Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs

These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?)

Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think?
Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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ATEK Azul
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I am really liking this Earth the creatures are pluasible, unique and inventive all of which are good qualities.

Maybe you can make a scaled Amphibian that mimics Frogs and Toads but with an outward appearance more like the first Amphibians?
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Venatosaurus
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Well I'm working on a "cladistics" chart, and it's coming along rather well, difficult pretty, I'm coming up with pretty cool clades...hopefully what I'm doing follows your project XD Hopefully I'll finish it within the next few days !
Edit: As for the Yoshis, I don't think they need such long tails, look at birds today...for an idea of what they could look like, look at the Nuna from Star Wars ;)
Edited by Venatosaurus, Aug 31 2009, 06:47 PM.



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StinglessBee
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Um, what is the Nuna?

Anyway, a while ago there was an idea for a group of fliers which evolved from rib gliders. Here they are:

Dracos
Class: Mammaliranaforme

A group of flying creatures related to knuckers and evolving from the same order as they evolved from (I'm reworking the knucker classification, they'll eventually be grouped with wyverns and the common ancestor group of the two), these creatures can be found in a few forms thoughout much of the world but achieved their greatest diversity in SE Asia, Australia, New Zealand, and across the islands of the Pacific and Indian oceans. Their wings are membranous, supported by the front limbs and from the elongated ribs, but are surprisingly sturdy. This is because several of their finger bones and rib bones flattened out into a series of small rods, which provide the wing with sturdyness, but can also change the shape of the wing to a greater extent than real life flyers. This makes them immensely manouverable in the air. Their rear limbs have become bird like, and are tucked under the body (which evolved from the semi-upright gait of their ancestors in order to support their weight on land). These creatures have both herbivores (mostly fruit and leaf eaters) and carnivores (which hunt a variety of smaller prey, including slime birds and other dracos) among their group, with a handful of fish eating species existing. Some dracos have even given up true flight in favour of gliding and using thermals to gain height. Whilst they share an erect gait which is often associated with higher mammaliranaformes, they still grouped together with knuckers and their kin because they have similar amounts of hair (located in nostrils to aid their sense of smell, on their feet to provide extra grip, as whiskers, and as manes which are used for attracting a mate) and because they still lay eggs. Most still lay their eggs in water (like in slime birds, tree holes and bromeliads are favoured, though any other source of fresh water will do perfectly) but several species have evolved the ability to lay eggs on land in a similar way to certain terrestrial salamanders in real life.

A picture is pending, but will turn up.

EDIT: I've changed their name as suggested by Venatosaurus
Edited by StinglessBee, Sep 6 2009, 07:59 AM.
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Venatosaurus
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Some alien from star wars that looked like the love child of a chicken and frog XD !
Cool species description , though Wyverns is a weird name why not Dracos with the family or genus name of Ptercostaeids (means Wing-Ribs)



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StinglessBee
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Thanks for the wyvern family name. I'm going to have to use it.

I called them wyverns to continue the link with dragons (according to western European myth, the wyvern is a two legged dragon of sorts). If it's an odd name, then call them what you like.
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Venatosaurus
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Oh I see, well the flighted Gephyrostega lineage I suggested could be called Wyverns if you'd like ^_^ And did you like waht else I suggested in the PM ?



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StinglessBee
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I did. Sorry I didn't PM you back: my Mum was literally putting diner out.
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Venatosaurus
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Oh that's okay ^_^ I think this topic deserves more attention from others as it's really good ! Now the only thing I see being truly updated is the general topic section !



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StinglessBee
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Venatosaurus
Sep 1 2009, 01:32 PM
Oh that's okay ^_^ I think this topic deserves more attention from others as it's really good !
Thanks for saying so!

Oh, and here is part of an essay I intend to get around to writing (mostly for laughs) at one point, as a sorry for not getting the longs updated today and for the lack of pictures across the thread (I believe I mentioned it when GBA said that frogs were cute):

Quote:
 
The cross-dimensional domesticated animals: amphibians

"I so swear that if our bills keep going up then we might have to eat Wally!"

"Don't say that Dad! Even as a joke! Wally is still upset about that Cweationist calling him a demon. Don't worry Wally, I won't let my Dad eat you, and you're an angel to me"

The Yoshi snuggled into the warmth of it's owner's hug, by now perfectly used to being hugged, and yawned.

"Yes Wally, that cweationist's dog was very mean. You could have eaten it for all I care"

Outwardly, the father smiled at the affection his daughter displayed by putting on a supposedly cute lisp when talking to her pet, but inwardly, he knew that if Wally was pitted against that dog, his money would by some startling coincidence be Wally not only eating the dog but having a go at the creationist to. The new guard pets that had been brought along were often a lot better than the dogs...


Eversince the first scientists first crossed the dimensions, they have been bringing things back with them. It isn't surprising, therefore, that these end up on the very exotic pet trade, despite protests from various sources (see above). It was therefore no surprise that when they found a land full of amphibians, they brought back some. After time on wildlife documentaries, then in zoos, people eventually wanted some as pets. From past experiance of events involving dimension hopping and the pet trade, the authorities had learned that it was often best to own the pet trade so that no illegal one could develop. Whilst taking ones from the wild would often be damaging, the scientists were collecting DNA samples from their routine tours of the "Amphibination", allowing clones to be made and then more animals to be bred from them.

Whilst the reptiliamorph descendants have yet to become popular, many people are taking the large lissamphibians as pets. By far the most popular examples are Yoshis. The fact that it looked like a strange combination of frog and dinosaur entranced many younger people, which resulted in them having the most demand to be made into pets. Whilst the slimy skin of several amphibians has made them unpopular due to the mess they make by walking on the carpet, several Yoshis (like several real life frogs) have a more leathery skin, allowing them to enter the household. They were found to be friendly pets, as many of the Yoshis found suitable as pets were rather social, and were also regarded as unusually intelligent. Those providing the Yoshis soon came up with a wide variety of breeds, some of which have the most outlandish "hair" or bizarre tongue crests, but the most popular variety of Yoshi was almost certainly the guard Yoshi. They were bred from social omnivores, and thus are perfectly capable of feeding on most pet foods as well as most forms of table scrap. Most importantly, they were perfectly social and capable around children (Wally from the story above is one of these), but at the same time were suspicious enough to distrust anyone who wasn't properly introduced to them. When they did meet an intruder who was not to be trusted, they would of course try their best to scare away and, if that fails, bite a hole or two in the intruder. They were most successful.

Whilst the Yoshi took over many niches, warrior toads have a devoted group of breeders, and have, unsurprisingly, become guards almost as good, if not better, than the Yoshis. Both now have their own "amphibian fancy", and can even be seen on "frog shows".

Whilst they weren't as popular as pets, leaping tadpoles are still important to those in business. As is generally known, frog's legs are popular in several countries, and for good reason. However, due to the small size of the frog, you are unlikely to get a substantial meal from a home Earth frog. Fortunately, the leaping tadpoles (being rabbit sized) have a lot more meat than the average frog. Not only can the back limbs be eaten, but there is plenty of flesh on the front limbs, on the back, and on the shoulders. This has led to the development of several "frog farms" throughout the world, which is a growing business. With the rate this business is growing, it is joked that shortly the frog will surpass the chicken as the most popular thing to go with barbeque sauce. Given enough time, they may eventually be right


Anyway, that is what I've written so far on home Earth/amphibination crossovers. Hope you like it. Sorry about the lack of pics!
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Venatosaurus
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That's funny ! It'd be cool if we could have cross dimentional machines to see what occurs in other alternative Earths !



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StinglessBee
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I'm glad you liked it.
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Venatosaurus
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I should try and finish up the cladogram, and try to present some pictures :)



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The Dodo
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I like the idea of the pet amphibians, maybe given enough time you could have a couple of domesticated types.
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StinglessBee
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Maybe... we'll have to see (I see myself having to do a part 2 of the essay which includes the reptiliamorphs). But I expect that I will write up a few domestic species, along with how to care for them of course.
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Venatosaurus
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LOL, make sure these people are careful though, because some clades include some increadibly dangerous members !



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