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| Amphibination; Part 3 now up | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,317 Views) | |
| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM Post #1 |
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Adolescent
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna). The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog. The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded. The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...) Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist). Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with: Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names) Order: Scale rats These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches. Class: Mammaloraniformes Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better) These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass). Class: Lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?) Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think? Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 20 2009, 02:39 PM Post #181 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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I was thinking about large carnivorous frogs now, related to the Spear-Tongues, these animals are found in 'dry' habitats, where they use their tongues to hack into underground tunnel systems of insects and insect-like eusocial 'salamanders', I picture they'd be quite large (pig-sized), and rather than hopping they'd shuffle around on their legs, to avoid any noise from above, and only hop when being hunted by another predator. |
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| Holben | Sep 23 2009, 01:39 PM Post #182 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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The problem without amniotes is that inland areas would never be colonised. An animal would find a way to protect its eggs from drying out, and fill that niche. Invertebrates would be more common. And bigger. The shore would buzz with life, predators and prey. Soon an animal would find a way of avoiding this. However, i would like an upright salamander which has arms developed into wings and glides on the thermals. It swoops down, picking up a scorpion or insect, and settles down to eat. its eggs are designed with as little surface area as possible, and layed under a shady rock. Caves would definately be full of life as well, owing to moist, cool conditions. Perhaps burrowing animals would become more common, and lay eggs deep underground. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 23 2009, 01:45 PM Post #183 |
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Adolescent
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Not neccesarily. Several lissamphibians have adapted to life in deserts (I think we discussed several survival tactics for them previously in the thread). And we already have large invertibrates in amphibination (the way it is going, amphibians will not dominate the sky... but I will reveal more on this later) |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 23 2009, 02:30 PM Post #184 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Exactly, though the upright flying salamander brings an idea to my mind, practically and erect stanced salamander with triangular wings, kinda looking like nemo-ramjets Blumbomeniformes, but obviously being a salamander, but again insects do rule the sky ! |
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| Iowanic | Sep 23 2009, 04:04 PM Post #185 |
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Adult
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What, spefically, would keep Salamander-types from ruling the sky? |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 23 2009, 04:17 PM Post #186 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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The fact that arthropods got their first and aren't willing to give up their roles. |
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| Iowanic | Sep 23 2009, 04:22 PM Post #187 |
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Adult
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Then insects rule our current skies? I'm not sure why salamanders wouldn't be able to find a niche in the air. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 23 2009, 04:25 PM Post #188 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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They do become gliders though, salamanders I mean, and some frogs |
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| Holben | Sep 24 2009, 11:39 AM Post #189 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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But because of there exoskeleton, there is a limit to the size of flying arthropods, but with the neccessary adaptations, salamander-types could out compete them. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 24 2009, 11:44 AM Post #190 |
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Adolescent
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We've already worked out ways to solve that a few pages back. And due to the larger sea level (again a few pages back), the oxygen content of the planet is somewhat higher anyway. Besides, as lissamphibians breath through their skin, they have to maintain a high surface area to body mass ratio, and so they too have a limit on the sizes they can grow to (though we have solved this in land animals, the adaptations we came up with could make flying amphibians far less aerodynamic) |
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| Holben | Sep 24 2009, 11:52 AM Post #191 |
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Rumbo a la Victoria
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OK. I'll shut up. |
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Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed." | |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 24 2009, 12:00 PM Post #192 |
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Adolescent
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Don't say it like that. The only reason you didn't know was because I didn't change the topic description... on it now. Anyway, this project really needs the opinion of people. Without that, how would it get better? So please, don't shut up. If there is anything wrong with this project, we really need to know. And would really appreciate it if you told us. |
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| KayKay | Sep 24 2009, 02:21 PM Post #193 |
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Adult
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Is this still going to be a waterlogged world? I'm sorry I haven't been exactly up to date, but I had an idea for a habitat in itself and since I have no projects running that I could apply it to, perhaps you might like to consider it for your project? I thought of it in particular since there had been some talk about making the Earth in this project a much wetter place, so I guess more low-lying shallow fresh water swamps? I had ideas in my mind of certain kinds of fresh-water non-vascular plants that maintain their own habitat to suit themselves. They are partially carnivorous gaining much of their sustenance from animal matter. The top parts floating on the surface are leafy and green, low lying to the water. The parts underneath the water control the environment with complex secretions and cells that synthesize a range of different proteins, from enzymes to toxins. There are root-like (with hyphae-like root hairs) structures that do this and they also suck up animal matter that has been digested by the enzymes. Their own secretions protect them from rot by killing bacteria and fungi and usually a peat-like bog will form amongst the roots that the plants feed on - full of detritus in a toxic, corrosive soup-like solution. The roots cells have not just cellulose walls but also mucus membranes to prevent it from being digested by its own secretions. Not only that, but its enzymes are more suited to digesting animal protein rather than plant protein. Of course, other organisms will have adapted to the unique habitats these plants create, some that have grown immune to the toxins and digestive enzymes, perhaps even some that can exploit it by scavenging on trapped or dead animals that stumbled into the bog. The bog can look deceivingly like normal ground, hidden by the green parts of the plants. For these plants, sustaining this habitat without killing everything off that relied on the water would be a problem. Apart from some isolated permanent spots, maybe they would take over swamps in cycles, creating outbreaks in some areas before casting their spores which go on to create an outbreak somewhere else. They would then die and allow the water time to recover. Thoughts? |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 24 2009, 02:48 PM Post #194 |
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Adolescent
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Yes the planet is still water-logged. There is probably going to be 3 Australia sized islands, one entirely tropical and made up of rain forest, one which is more temperate and sub artic temperatures, and a third island which is between the two extremes. As well as these, there is going to be a lot of smaller islands ranging in size from the Azores to New Zealand. And KayKay, I think I can safely say that your habitat idea is absolutely amazing. I think that it should definitely go in. I keep getting the idea of a food web in the habitat based around specialised kinds of tadpole (sometimes neonatal), flatworms, and weird kinds of arthropod. Edited by StinglessBee, Sep 24 2009, 02:52 PM.
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 24 2009, 03:00 PM Post #195 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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I love Kays idea ! We don't have any plant-based ideas, so thud works out amazingly ! |
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