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Amphibination; Part 3 now up
Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,318 Views)
StinglessBee
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna).

The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog.

The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded.

The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...)

Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist).

Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with:

Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names)
Order: Scale rats

These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches.

Class: Mammaloraniformes
Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better)

These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass).

Class: Lissamphibian
Order: Anura
Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs

These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?)

Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think?
Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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Venatosaurus
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Cool, I also saw the lungless salamanders under the genera Hydromantes, and they have tongues like that of frogs that can be lashed out to capture prey, so I think we can do something like that, though I don't know if such a thing could occur in anything over the size of a badger efficiently, but I'd have to check.
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Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 18 2009, 05:32 PM.



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Carlos
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Wow, who'd guess the hips help the tongue
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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Venatosaurus
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Yes, a strange adaptation !



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Rick Raptor
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What´s the advantage of having a bony tongue?


I also thought of lungless salamanders as large plant-eaters (because they have no lungs there would be enough space for the necessary digestive system), but since they have to keep their skin moist to breath they would spend most of their time in the water. Maybe they could evolve into a hippo analogue?
Edited by Rick Raptor, Sep 19 2009, 04:10 PM.
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StinglessBee
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Quote:
 
Yes, a strange adaptation !
Indeed. For some reason I'm getting images of a creature whose tongue skeleton has evolved a toothy sucker on the end, like an amphibian version of the creature from alien. Sadly, it isn't the most plausible idea in the world...
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I also thought of lungless salamanders as large plant-eaters (because they have no lungs there would be enough space for the necessary digestive system), but since they have to keep their skin moist to breath they would spend most of their time in the water. Maybe they could evolve into a hippo analogue?
Not neccesarily. They merely need an adaptation to aid them in breathing... Perhaps a series of sails running down their back, full of blood vessels, drastically extending their surface area to volume ratio. Or a frill, which appears similar to that of a frilled lizard, but really follows the same function as the sails above. They wouldn't get very large and would be among the more sluggish animals (a slower metabolism would allow them to cheat the size limit to an extent), but might be able to attain some size. Maybe they could be sloth analogues? Or maybe small stegosaur like creatures? I'm unsure.
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Carlos
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It would be interesting to see a "slothmander"
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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StinglessBee
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Venatosaurus has already sent me an idea of frugivorous sloth wurms over PM, so you will see one on at least one of the major islands. If not more.
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Venatosaurus
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Yeah Sloth Wurms all the way. As for lungless salamanders, I can see some as slow moving insect eaters, using their extendable tongues to search through mounds, and rotten logs, as well as slow moving herbivores and fruit eaters, probably like small ground sloths.



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StinglessBee
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Venatosaurus
Sep 19 2009, 05:17 PM
As for lungless salamanders, I can see some as slow moving insect eaters, using their extendable tongues to search through mounds, and rotten logs
I now have a sudden desire to create a kiwi niche lungless salamander...
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Venatosaurus
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Ooh, good idea ! Maybe we can also have, on our New Zealand-like island, a kiwi-like relative to the land Litus, in addition the the lungless variety on other islands !
Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 19 2009, 05:28 PM.



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StinglessBee
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Nice idea... But I'll have to think on it tomorrow... it's late over here.
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ATEK Azul
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How about a frilled and sail backed animal that has Rabbit or Elephant like ears(Mammalian ear structures might still evolve even if modified) for the lungless animals(maybe the hair like skin growths too)?
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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Venatosaurus
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Hair-like structures are definately possible as we already have a living example, the Hairy-Frog ! I do like sail backed forms, but I was thinking of giving sails to something else, then again the more the merrier !



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Carlos
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No matter how many structures such a salamander has they still need a wet skin for such structures to work however, so make sure they live in relatively wet environs
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

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Venatosaurus
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Yeah, lungless salamanders would have to be found in moist places, Cloud forests would probably be great places for such animals.

Edit: Now thinking about it, rather than lungless salamanders developing sail-backed forms, what about rib-winged forms, this would increase the surface area for respiration, provide quick getaways, and make it easier for the animals to search for insects, and possibly glide around catching insects with their extendable tongues.
Edited by Venatosaurus, Sep 19 2009, 08:00 PM.



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