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| Amphibination; Part 3 now up | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,319 Views) | |
| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM Post #1 |
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Adolescent
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna). The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog. The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded. The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...) Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist). Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with: Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names) Order: Scale rats These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches. Class: Mammaloraniformes Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better) These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass). Class: Lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?) Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think? Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 14 2009, 04:37 PM Post #151 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Eh, I'm sure he loves the debate though Nemo it's great you posted, and if an illustration can be done by yourself to make your vision of some aspects of this world, I'd gladly appreciate it ! And hopefully when I email you , you'll respond Nemo XD JKA tricky part about this is niche distribution as these animals can do what another does, for example and aquatic ambush predator akin to a crocodilian. Several animals can do such a thing such as temnospondyls, lissamphibians, hell even fish, so that's the only real difficulty that exists here. |
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| The Dodo | Sep 14 2009, 04:45 PM Post #152 |
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Prime Specimen
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The aquatic ambush niche could be held by different animals in separate parts of the world. They don't all have to be the same type of animal. |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 15 2009, 03:03 PM Post #153 |
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Adolescent
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I'd imagine that to be the case, but as this is an amphibian world I'd imagine there to be a fairly universal group of crocodile like lissamphibians or temnospondyls. I do like the idea of giant lungfish acting as aquatic predators though. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 15 2009, 03:16 PM Post #154 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Again, as I said, I have to make a small cladistics diagram, but I'm also sure the niche holders would vary from place to place. |
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| Canis Lupis | Sep 15 2009, 07:36 PM Post #155 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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I'm glad Nemo posted (really I am), but I've got a few questions as to plausibility of his ideas. I don't like to call myself an arthropod expert (I'm not), but how do a "honey-comb" structured exoskeleton and a rather efficient lung (I presume it evolved from the spiracles) evolve in these ancestral dragonflies? Unless evolutionary history is taken into account, I don't see how these fantastic arthropod traits could arise. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 15 2009, 08:39 PM Post #156 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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With almost 300 million years to evolve and adapt to changing habitats, then oh yeah, it's possible for such adaptations to arise
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| Canis Lupis | Sep 15 2009, 08:45 PM Post #157 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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I know it's possible. I just want to know the reasoning behind these adaptations and how they evolved. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 15 2009, 08:55 PM Post #158 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Well that's for Nemo to answer as they were his creations |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 17 2009, 05:39 PM Post #159 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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I'm wondering, would it be plausible to have some amphibians, somehow construct (whether through regurgitation of a membrane-like substance that overtime can be used to store water and their eggs, then continue to seal it up, here the young can hatch and develop) water sacs on land where their eggs can be stored ?! |
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| Carlos | Sep 18 2009, 02:04 AM Post #160 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Yes, it is possible |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 18 2009, 12:54 PM Post #161 |
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Adolescent
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Nice idea for the water sacs. I was thinking of certain desert-dwelling amphibians co-operating to create an underground "pond" formed of foam, in which their larvae would live until they could survive on their own. I think your idea is better though: it can be applied to far more amphibians than mine could. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 18 2009, 04:35 PM Post #162 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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I like the foam idea, what if we use (with his permission) a concept similar to Viergachts', with a scrubland dwelling toad and construct ponds, when it's the dry season, and themselves secrete their venom so the animals drinking with be intoxicated, now they can either eat the corpses or eat the scavenging insects, or hell, let the young eat the meat and the adults the insects ! |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 18 2009, 04:47 PM Post #163 |
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Adolescent
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Sounds like a good idea. I was thinking that the species that used the foam pond method would be the eusocial amphibians you thought of over PMs (and what ever creatures would take advantage of the pond), and that concept fits in well for a predatory species. |
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| Venatosaurus | Sep 18 2009, 05:00 PM Post #164 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Hmmm, I think we can use the foam in a different manner, maybe the foam could rather be in the trees, or the foam can be used to attract insects and boom, they are stuck and then dinner time, comes around |
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| StinglessBee | Sep 18 2009, 05:18 PM Post #165 |
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Adolescent
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Sounds like a good idea to me. |
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Nemo it's great you posted, and if an illustration can be done by yourself to make your vision of some aspects of this world, I'd gladly appreciate it ! And hopefully when I email you , you'll respond Nemo XD JK


7:20 PM Jul 10