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| Amphibination; Part 3 now up | |
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| Topic Started: Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM (6,315 Views) | |
| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 02:16 PM Post #1 |
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Adolescent
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This is an alternate world where amniotes never evolved. Meanwhile, the Permian extinction was more gradual, allowing the reptiliamorphs (amniote-like amphibians such as Seymouria and Diadectes) to survive. All other extinctions happened as normal. The way I see this world, there are three main orders: lissamphibians (which are more diverse than real world amphibians, but do not produce megafauna), mammaloraniformes (descendants of Seymouria group reptiliamorphs), and throat breeders (descendants of Diadectes group reptiliamorphs, which produce most of the megafauna). The throat breeders are generally social creatures which nurse their young in modified vocal cords in a similar way to a Darwin’s frog. The mammaloraniformes, meanwhile, will have an internal ear drum together with ear bones seperate from the skull, and will be fully warm blooded. The lissamphibians won't be producing anything larger than a badger for two reasons: firstly, many of them breathe through their skin as well as through their lungs, resulting in them needing a large body surface to volume ratio and secondly because they lack the reinforced spine that amniotes and some reptiliamorphs have (come to think of it, badger size may be pushing the limit...) Anyway, may I have critique, advice, or suggestions please. If anyone can think of a better name than those I've come up with, then please tell me. Also, for those who wish for pictures, they will come... eventually (don't expect master pieces: I am, at best, a dreadful artist). Anyway, here is are a few orders and families to begin with: Class: Throat breeder (sorry: I'm not good with latin or greek names) Order: Scale rats These are the creatures from which all other throat breeders evolve (as these were some of the survivors of the K-10 Cretacious extinction). Whilst they are origionally descended from the herbivorous Diadectamorphs, these are omnivorous creatures that grow up to the size of a fox. Whilst they are scaly (reptiliamorphs were) these scales are more comparable to those of a carp than to reptile scales. They communicate by a mixture of scent, body language and (in some species) colour changes, as the vocal cords are used to carry their young. These creatures fill rodent niches, and a few derived scale rats fill primitive primate niches. Class: Mammaloraniformes Order: Seal mimics (not an actual name, just a stand in until someone thinks of something better) These are very basal members of the class, in which many members of the order haven't evolved vivipary. These are mostly marine, but several species swim upriver to lay their frog-like eggs. They and their larvae have pits in their head for sensing the electricity given of by muscles. Most species prey on fish and fill seal and sea lion niches. However, a family of whale like creatures exist (these have evolved vivipary). These fill the niche of humpback whales (eating small fish en mass) or grey whales (eating invertebrates from the sea bed en mass). Class: Lissamphibian Order: Anura Family: Leaping tadpoles/rabbit frogs These are frog-like creatures that maintain the coiled gut used in their tadpole stage to digest plant matter. These grow up to the size of a rabbit, and can be distinguished from other members of the frog/toad order by the more spherical body, which contains the larger digestive system. These (and several other families of frog) have abandoned the usual jumping ability in favour of a odd form of gallop, similar to that used by some crocodilians in real life. They have achieved most of their diversity in colder regions, as they can hibernate easily. Some even have a natural anti-freeze in their blood and muscles (some frogs do this in real life, so why not?) Anyway, there is plenty more things to come. So... what do you think? Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| Carlos | Aug 26 2009, 04:20 PM Post #2 |
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Adveho in me Lucifero
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Interesting. I suggest the name "Mammaloraniformes" for the clade of mammal like amphibians |
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Lemuria: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/ Terra Alternativa: http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/ My Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/Carliro ![]() | |
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| Canis Lupis | Aug 26 2009, 04:29 PM Post #3 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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Like I said to many amateur Latin namers: http://www.archives.nd.edu/cgi-bin/lookdown.pl This seems like a great project. I don't know much about prehistory though, so don't ask my advice on them (use wikipedia). I'm just wondering: what takes the air niches? |
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| StinglessBee | Aug 26 2009, 04:43 PM Post #4 |
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Adolescent
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Thanks for the name JohnFaa, it's edited in. As for the flying niches... I'm thinking a rather large mixture of creatures. The one I'm making right now are a group of lissamphibians (I've given them the nickname "slime birds" for now) that fill the niche of swallows and insect eating bats. They'd be a sister group to frogs, with all of their limbs developed into 4 wings. So far I've thought of them as having the fingers that are not part of their wings being akin to a tree frog. However, as these can only cover a limited amount of niches (due to the size impediment thing) I believe I'm going to have to do a lot more than that. Oh, and thanks for the translation site Canis. Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 26 2009, 05:01 PM.
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| Canis Lupis | Aug 26 2009, 06:01 PM Post #5 |
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Dinosaurs eat man, woman inherits the Earth.
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You're welcome. Sounds quite interesting with the multiple groups. Most people would just pick one and make just that one control a medium, but I like what you've done. I like it a lot. |
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| Venatosaurus | Aug 26 2009, 06:46 PM Post #6 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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This sounds fantastic !!! I had a project just like this in mind several months ago and had a notebook full of designs !! I have an idea to suggest, the Squirtles, which are marine animals that are like placoderms, which are avid mollusc and coral eaters. They have turtle-like heads, with round bodies with flipper like limbs and a long flat tail.
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| The Dodo | Aug 27 2009, 12:34 AM Post #7 |
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Prime Specimen
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So do they have to return to the water to breed or have they developed another way? Sounds like a great project though
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| StinglessBee | Aug 27 2009, 06:07 AM Post #8 |
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Adolescent
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Depends on the lineage. Whilst plenty of creatures will, several lineages will have evolved vivipary, and several lineages will lay their eggs on land. The throat breeders will be completely independant from water. Oh and the squirtles are cool. They are in the project (thanks Venatosaurus) On another note, there are two things I have come up with that I'm asking your opinion of before I put either into action. The first was the existence of relict temnospondyls in the project (probibly inhabiting Australia or parts of the Americas). As for the second thing, due to me having slime birds evolve into fully fledged flying forms during the mid Jurrasic, that will leave insects as masters of the sky for some time. Anyway, my point is, could they possibly diversify into the seed eating niches played out by small birds? And if so, then what lineages should I use in this? Could they maintain other niches in the face of yet more flying vertibrate forms? Moving on, I give you another lissamphibian family: Class: Lissamphibian Order:Anura Family: Warrior Toads (praetorianus) These are among the largest lissamphibians on the world of amphibination, with the largest being as long as a badger (though somewhat leaner). Most of these are scavengers and hunters of small game, such as smaller scale rats and normal frogs, about as long as a hedgehog. However, a few of these tackle prey larger than themselves. Whilst the size impediment means that they'll never be able to wrestle down their prey, many have found ways around this. The first are a mouth that is filled with more bacteria than a septic tank. The second, is pack hunting tactics. Using both of these, the warrior toads successfully hunt down prey surprisingly larger than themselves, if only the old, sick, and very young of those species. Traits common to all warrior toads is the presence of larger teeth and more powerful jaws than their relatives, the replacement of the amphibian leap with a more crocodilian gallop (leaping tadpoles have done the same), the use of a crocodilian "death roll" as an aid to ripping flesh of a carcass (as they can't chew), and laying their eggs on land (several amphibians do this in real life). Due to the last point, many are viciously protective of their eggs (hence why their latin name is derived from the name of the Roman imperial bodyguards) Hope you like them. Edited by StinglessBee, Aug 27 2009, 10:59 AM.
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| Venatosaurus | Aug 27 2009, 11:07 AM Post #9 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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I dislike amphibians, because most give me the creeps and this animal just gave me another reason why as to avoid them XD Great job, hopefully you'll have some drawings to accompany these descriptions
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| colddigger | Aug 27 2009, 12:29 PM Post #10 |
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Joke's over! Love, Parasky
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are those battle toads i see???! |
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Oh Fine. Oh hi you! Why don't you go check out the finery that is SGP?? v Don't click v Spoiler: click to toggle | |
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| StinglessBee | Aug 27 2009, 12:43 PM Post #11 |
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Adolescent
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Colddigger, what are battle toads? By the way Venatosaurus, the squirtles you suggested, what group (if any of those I've got listed) do you think they should they be in? You did say placoderm like, but weren't the placoderms extinct before the Permian? If I'm wrong on that account, then I'm sorry. |
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| Venatosaurus | Aug 27 2009, 12:54 PM Post #12 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Maybe mammaloraniformes that took to the water, or throat breeders, or maybe highly derived temnospondyls ?! Oops, I didn't mean placoderms, I meant placodonts XD !!!! |
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| StinglessBee | Aug 27 2009, 01:14 PM Post #13 |
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Adolescent
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As I already have a group of mammaliraniformes in the water, I think I'll have them be highly derived throat breeders. I am working on one group that could be related to the squirtles (details of this group... are a surprise). |
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| Venatosaurus | Aug 27 2009, 01:24 PM Post #14 |
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HAUS OF SPEC
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Great ! And I can't wait for the surprise ! |
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| The Dodo | Aug 28 2009, 01:25 AM Post #15 |
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Prime Specimen
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So the ones who lay their eggs on land to they have hard shells to protect the embryo or do they use another method for protection. |
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