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Complex life on Mars; Not at all a serious idea.
Topic Started: Jul 31 2009, 04:28 PM (1,272 Views)
T.Neo
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I had the idea today, of complex life living on Mars.

Of course, it isn't any sort of serious idea, the extreme environment, scarcity of resources and the dry history of the planet,
would probably prohibit even single-celled organisms from living on the surface.

But, since complex life living in the vacuum of space was discussed on these forums, which I'd regard as many levels more implausible, I'll go ahead anyway. :P


Could organisms survive the near-vacuum and temperature, how would they gain energy? Would there be any way for life to evolve into such forms? Would this perhaps be more plausible if Mars was warmer, wetter and more active?

A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Ànraich
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi

Plants would probably be black, to maximize sunlight intake. Animals would need to somehow pressurize themselves to survive the near-vacuum, but with an efficient enough respiratory system they could take in enough air to get what they needed out of it.

Lifeforms would probably live only near the poles, and in very few numbers at that. Small herds and pocket plains/forests around puddles of water slush or perhaps by glaciers (melt water). They'd probably be very small and specialized, fitting into very specific niches in order to maximize the efficiency of the hostile environment.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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ATEK Azul
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Sounds like that would work though I think life might be underground beneath the poles where ice might melt thanks to either the core or life itself.
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T.Neo
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Plants would probably be black, to maximize sunlight intake. Animals would need to somehow pressurize themselves to survive the near-vacuum, but with an efficient enough respiratory system they could take in enough air to get what they needed out of it.


I'm confused on what they would respire, since the air is mostly CO2. Can animals gain energy from that?

I doubt there would be many (if any) vascular plants, perhaps just mosses and lichens growing under/on rocks. If there were, they would probably look like crosses between tundra plants and cacti.

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Lifeforms would probably live only near the poles, and in very few numbers at that. Small herds and pocket plains/forests around puddles of water slush or perhaps by glaciers (melt water). They'd probably be very small and specialized, fitting into very specific niches in order to maximize the efficiency of the hostile environment.


Agreed. What maximum size are you talking about though, insect or even tardigrade size, or the size of small mammals and reptiles?
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Canis Lupis
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Actually, I was also contemplating this for a short story or novella about the manned expedition to Mars. There seem to be only three likely places for life on Mars. These are the north pole, the south pole, and any cave systems.

No plants or plant-like organisms would be neccesary. All organisms would be part autotroph, part heterotroph. All creatures would also be lithotrophs when it came to respiration. One thing I learned from that creation museum (and don't worry, I backed it up with information from non-creationists) is that rocks contain gases.

Therefore, the creatures (at least in the cave systems) would need to eat rocks to obtain any gases neccessary for metabolic processes. The cave organisms would have lungs (with a remarkable conversion system mind you) lining the length of their body with special lung pouches attached to these lungs. These would meet the outside environment and, through the use of powerful enzymes, break off and break down rocks so the lungs could use these gases. These gases could be used for all metabolic processes, even ones where (in Earth organisms) liquid is required.

The situation would be much reversed at both poles. The pole-dwelling organism could burrow through the ice, scooping up ice in its lung pouches. The ice would then be shipped to the lung, which has a chamber at the top. This chamber would extract oxygen and other gases from the liquid. These gases would then make their way into the lung where they would be shipped throughout the body. The liquid would then be excreted and refreeze into the snow to be used by another organism.
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Xenophile
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Let us not froget that any organism living on mars would need advanced radiation shielding.
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T.Neo
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Let us not froget that any organism living on mars would need advanced radiation shielding.


Not really, tardigrades and some bacteria can survive many times the radiation that would kill a human. (Not sure if they could survive the radiation levels on Mars, but I bet they probably could.)

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One thing I learned from that creation museum (and don't worry, I backed it up with information from non-creationists) is that rocks contain gases.


Yes, rocks contain gases. Many rocks contain a lot of oxygen, etc. But the gases are bonded with other elements at the atomic level- that is why rocks are rocks.
I'd honestly consider an animal breathing CO2 through feathery lung-like appendages more plausible.
Would it be possible for an animal to do away with breathing completely, and gather all sustenance via food?

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All organisms would be part autotroph, part heterotroph


That is also possible, but I think at least some specialisation would occur, i.e. sessile organisms growing mostly on sunlight and mobile ones getting most of their energy from food.

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ATEK Azul
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This sounds like some interesting ideas will come from this I look forward to the fruits of the topic.
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ATEK Azul
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This sounds like some interesting ideas will come from this I look forward to the fruits of the topic.
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Temporary
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Would it be possible for an animal to do away with breathing completely, and gather all sustenance via food?


Well, the main reason we breathe (I think) is because oxygen can help rip molecules apart so we can use the chemicals. So, yeah, if the organism found a way to use the gases in the rocks.
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Ànraich
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Sure, the first animals couldn't breathe oxygen; it was poisonous. Of course there were so many of them, since they were just basically big sponges on the beach, that they exhaled so much oxygen that the it overwhelmed the atmosphere. They breathed themselves to death.

Of course on Mars you won't get that problem because there isn't a whole lot of water, unlike on Earth.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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Ànraich
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Also, lets not forget the monolith on Mars:

http://dailylinked.blogspot.com/2009/08/monolith-on-mars-surface.html
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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T.Neo
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Also, lets not forget the monolith on Mars:


:D

It's probably a light trick like the face, odd things can appear in those monochrome, overhead shots.
A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.
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Ànraich
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But the more invigorating question is; what do we do if it isn't?

I'll tell you what I'm doing, making a computer virus. That was how they killed the Monolith in the books and that's how it'll go down in real life.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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colddigger
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you forget that if we had life develop on Mars it would radically change the planets chemistry, if it suddenly appeared on Mars at present day, with all the life threatening troubles that you guys are putting the martians up against -i highly doubt mars was like it is at the beginning of its existence which is a more convenient time to start life- then i can easily see a bacteria that metabolises the iron oxide and release oxygen into the atmosphere, water even...

i can see complex life living all over the Martian globe, because it would have millions of years to deal with the ''harshness''.
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