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Biology of a Fantasy Earth; Mammals and dinosaurs together?
Topic Started: Jul 22 2009, 07:17 PM (6,102 Views)
Black_Panther
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Hi, people.
As some of you may know (specially the ones who have seen my DA) i'm working in a fantasy world. So, in a way similar to that of 'The World of Kong: A Natural History of Skull Island' or whatever that's called; i would like to bring some 'realism' into the project, while still keeping some of the fantasy aspects.

As a brief thing, i shall describe a few aspects of this world, that i want to focus on, to add a few realism to this thing:
-The K-T event didn't happened. So, as you may take account; dinosaurs are still around...but, during the last million years of the cretaceous, a disease swept through all the globe, killing dinosaurs except in the Americas.
-Surviving dinosaurs include dromaeosaurs, oviraptors, abelisaurs and only a surviving tyrannosaur species, the Nanotyrannus (i know it's probably a real dinosaur species; but, again, i'm sticking into the fantasy stuff), while herbivores include pachycephalosaurs, the Magyarosaurus, smaller hadrosaurs, small ceratopsians and a few ankylosaurs.
-Yes, Pterosaurs and mosasaurs are still around.

Now, the fantasy, inaccurate stuff that i hope some of you might find interesting:
-Marsupials manage to evolve, due to full extinction of dinosaurs in Australia.
-Mammals DO evolve; although, creatures like elephants, primates (with the exception of carnivore, baboon-like forms adapted to trees and a small species of lemurians that eventually evolve into humanoid creatures), horses, bears, elk, goats, cows, whales, rhinos and hippopotami never evolve.
-Creodonts are present, although, they're restricted to a small, wolverine-like species inhabiting islands in the sub-artic North America.
-Pigs are diverse, from analogues to warthogs and razorback pigs, to beasts similar to hippopotami and rhinoceros.
Also, a family of carnivore pigs inhabit eastern Europe and the Balkans: the Gorgonidae.
-Deer are present in a variety of forms, most of them inhabiting the northern hemisphere; while stocky, jungle dwelling species live in the depths of african rainforests. Gazelle-like forms inhabit the savannah.
-Felines are present in Eastern Asia and the Americas, filling the niches of extinct, larger predators. Felines range from arboreal species, to panther-like creatures as big as a Smilodon.
-Monitor lizards in africa gave rise to a family of lion-like reptilians: Manticores.
-Mustelids are way more diverse than Real world. From analogues of ferrets and martens, to bear-like species.
-South America is home to gigantic teratorns.
-Tropical coasts are inhabited by fully marine birds and penguin-like descendants of Hesperornis.
-Flightless, moa-sized birds are common in the Southern hemisphere; along with predatorial, flightless herons.
-Pinnipeds are present with a large variety of species; from seals similar to those in Real earth, to big, fully marine creatures filling the niches of antartic whales and dolphins.

And finally, civilization manages to appear due to some magical mumbo jumbo that i won't discuss, because it's totally fantastic and doesn't have anything to do with evolution.

So, what do you think?
Should i fully describe this bizarre and impossible world?
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

Yeah- but as the Great American Interchange showed, better adapted predators win. Carnivores like the felines from NA completely outcompeted the terror birds within a few thousand years.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Black_Panther
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Holbenilord
Apr 19 2010, 07:10 AM
Yeah- but as the Great American Interchange showed, better adapted predators win. Carnivores like the felines from NA completely outcompeted the terror birds within a few thousand years.
Yeah, but i'm not having all the carnivores in the same area. For example; dromaeosaurs are mostly found in the great american prairies (with the exception of the tundra-dwelling Huntsdrake and the Florida Wolfdragon), while sabertooth cats only live in remote areas of California and the West coast. Wyverns are only endemic to the Rocky Mountains, while creatures like the Black Tyrant and the Death Tyrant are found in wastelands and north of the american prairies...whereas things like Wolfdragons, Ahuizotls and Emperor Crocodiles are swamp-dwelling creatures.
Most of the predators thrive in the rainforests south of what could be called Mexico.
I think it will get clear when i finish my website.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Black_Panther
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I returned...full list of dinosaurs...
I kind of suck with scientifical names.

Dinosauria.
-Theropoda:
Tyrannosauroidea:
*Dracotyrannidae. (Dragon Tyrants)
-Black Tyrant. (Necrotyrannus Imperator)
-Tezcatlipoca's Dragon. (Tezcatyrannus Draconis)
-Ravana. (Ravanasaurus Exterritum)
-Death Tyrant. (Thanatotherium Beluosus)
*Avityrannidae.(Avian-like Tyrants)
-Siberian Saber Tyrant. (Smilotyrannus Altaicus)
-Alaskan Saber Tyrant. (Smilotyrannus Occidentalis)
-Khan. (Avityrannus Infensor Khan)
-Siberian Ravager. (Avityrannus Infensor Sinensis)
*Theriotyrannidae. (Beast Tyrants)
-Kukulcan's Dragon. (Kukulcanosaurus Maya)
-Greater Khan. (Regnatotherium Perditor)

Maniraptora:
Oviraptorosauria.
*Aggroraptora (Aggresors)
-Jungle Strikedragon. (Aggroraptor Silvae)
-Mountain Strikedragon. (Aggroraptor Atlas)
-Savannah Strikedragon. (Aggroraptor Pugnator)
*Cryptoraptora (Cryptid Raptors)
-Carroll's Jabberwocky. (Cryptoraptor Carrollii)
-Jersey Devil. (Dracoavis Satanicus)
*Terravulturidae. (Land Vultures)
-Land Vulture. (Vulturaptor Romanensis)
-Death Eater. (Necrophagus Britanicus)
*Hyaenamimidae (Hyena Imitators)
-Dire Cassowary. (Saurocasuarius Robustus)
-Grim Howler. (Hyaenamimus Ululator)

Therizinosauria.
*Glaciodraconidae. (Snow Dragons)
-Siberian Snow Dragon. (Glaciodraconis Siberiensis)
-Alaskan Snow Dragon. (Glaciodraconis Americensis)
-Greater Snow Dragon. (Titanodraconis Gigas)
*Macronyxidae. (Giant Claws)
-False Rhea. (Macronyx Rheimimus)
-Drassuary. (Cryptonyx Incognita)
-Great Dragonclaw. (Gigaonyx Major)
-Glacial Dragonclaw. (Boreonyx Artica)
-Mountain Leaper. (Alpinonyx Agilis)
-Great Rhea. (Macronyx Rheimimus Gigas)

Deinonychosauria.
*Tyrannoraptoridae. (Tyrant Raptors)
-Hell Knight (Infernoraptor Patagonica)
*Dromaeosauridae
-Huntsdrake (Lycaenoraptor Americensis)
-Swamp Drake (Dromaeonyx Carnifex)
-Wolfdragon (Luporaptor Sicarius)
-Horse Killer (Equuvenator Giganteus)
-Speedah (Velocidromaeus Fragilis)
*Velociraptorinae. (Velociraptors)
-Desert Prowler. (Acanthoraptor Mongoliensis)
-Vuma. (Acanthoraptor Vumae)
*Icthyoraptorinae. (Fish Raptors)
-Hammerclaw Fisher. (Sarisasaurus Sphyraonyx)
-Paluraptor. (Ichtyraptor Paludensis)

Pithecoraptoridae
*Brutosauroidae. (Brute Lizards)
-Giddon. (Atelesaurus Amazonicus)
-Night Climber. (Nanovenator Noctivivens)
-African Draboon. (Afronychus Africana)
-Striped Giddon. (Virgatunychus Cryptopelta)
*Sanguinophagidae. (Blood Suckers)
-Caribbean Goatsucker. (Noctosanguinus Capraphagus Caribbensis)
-Amazonian Goatsucker. (Noctosanguinus Capraphagus Amazonica)
Piscatoraptoridae. (Heron Dragons)
-Falsemingo. (Phoenicomimus Floridensis)
-Cranebill Raptor. (Piscatoraptor Gruimorphis)
-Stilter. (Grallatoraptor Fragilis)

Eurodraconia.
*Pterodraconidae. (Dragonwings)
*Pterodraconis (Real Dragonwings)
-Common Dragonwing. (Pterodraco Alpinus)
-Royal Dragonwing. (Pterodraco Rex)
*Arboronyxinae (Tree Claws)
-Tree Glider. (Arboronyx Draco)
-Malagasy Climber. (Arboronyx Lemuriensis)
*Wyvernidae. (Wyverns)
*European Dragons (Eurodraco)
-Alpean Wyvern. (Eurodraco Alpinus)
-Rumanian Wyvern. (Eurodraco Romanensis)
-Chaintail. (Catenacauda Ferox)
-Titan Falconclaw. (Falcodraconis Titanica)
-Helasaurus. (Helasaurus Asgardicus)

Carnosauria.
Allosauroidea.

*Argentodraconidae. (Patagonian Dragons)
-Patagonian Dragon.(Argentodraconis Patagonicus)
*Incasauridae. (Incan Dragons)
-Atahualpasaurus. (Atahualpasaurus Inca)
-Peruvian Prowler. (Peruviasaurus Noctovenator)

Ceratosauria:
Carnotaurinae.

*Afrodraconidae.(African Dragons)
-Hannibal's Chimera. (Chimera Hannibalensis)
-Jaggedhead. (Afrodracon Atrox)
-Merrick's Abomination. (Deformisaurus Merricki)
-Kasai Rex. (Kasai Rex)
*Carnotaurini. (Bull Lizards)
-Drakebull. (Dracotaurus Senegalensis)
-Hannibal's Drakebull. (Dracotaurus Hannibalensis)
-Gilgamesh. (Dracotaurus Ishtarensis)
-Cretean Chimeroid. (Dracotaurus Cretensis)

Noasauridae.
*Gallotauridae. (Cockatrices)
-Common Cockatrice. (Gallotaurus Thessalicus)
-Cretean Cockatrice. (Gallotaurus Cretensis)
-Morocco Cockatrice. (Gallotaurus Cyrenaicus)

Ornithomimosauria:
Ornithomimidae.

Ungulatornidae.
*Hippogriphidae. (Hippogriffs)
-Dullahan. (Hippogriphus Britanicus)
-Magnificent Hippogriff. (Hippogriphus Magnificens)
-Lesser Hippogriff. (Hippogriphus Minor)
*Beelzemorphidae. (Devil Lizards)
-False Jabberwocky. (Cryptobeelze Aemulatoris)

Titanosauria:
Afrotitanosauridae.

*Afrobrachidae. (African Titans)
-Great Mokele (Afrobrachius Mokele Congolensis)
-Swamp Mokele (Afrobrachius Mokele Paludosus)
-Nile Titan (Barotherium Nilus)
-Kilimanjaro Titan (Barotherium Africana)
*Potamosauridae. (River Titans)
-Amazonian Titan (Gigasaurus Amazonicus)

Ceratopsia.
Ceratopsidae:
Ceratopsinae.

*Krizanoceratopsidae. (Krizan Horns)
-Tri-Horned Juggernaut (Titanoceratops Krizana)
-Buffaler (Malleoceras Montana)
-Grand Gorgon (Titanoceratops Gorgonis)
-Mountain Gorgon (Titanoceratops Gorgonis Montanus)
Centrosaurinae.
Dracoceratopsia:

*Arietocephalia. (Ram Heads)
-Ram Head (Arietocephalus Pigrum)
-Bonehead (Ossucephalus Turpiculus)

Ankylosauria.
Nodosauria:
Gladiosauridae.
*Australogladionidae. (Australian Warriors)
-Australian Warrior (Australogladion Gibsonii)
-Spiker (Australosaurus Lupatus)
-Grand Spiker (Australusaurus Lupatus Imperator)
Ankylosauridae:
Macrobellatoridae:

*Pseudochellonidae. (False Turtles)
-Turtle King (Rexosaurus Funginus)
*Bellatosauridae. (Warrior Lizards)
-Spartan Lizard (Spartanosaurus Fidelis)
*Iberosauridae. (Rodeleros)
-Cortes' Rodelero (Iberosaurus Cortesiensis)
-Giant Rodelero (Iberosaurus Castilliensis)

-Ornithopoda.
Hadrosauria:
Macrohadrosauria.

*Macroanatidae. (Duck Titans)
-Duck Titan. (Anserititanus Maximus)
*Brachiomimidae. (Titan Mimics)
-Patagonian Colossus. (Brachiomimus Patagonicus)
Lanceahadrosauria.
*Cornohadrinae. (Horned Ducks)
-Duckram. (Cornohadrinus Americensis)
-Royal Grassbull. (Graminosaurus Rex)
-Imperial Grassbull. (Graminosaurus Imperator)
-Majestic Duckram. (Cornohadrinus Magnificus)
-Duckalope. (Anseridromeus Migratoris)
Microhadrosauria.
*Canilicertidae. (Dog Lizards)
-Dog Lizard (Vulpesaurus Viridi)
-Cleopatra's Sphynx (Leornis Aegypticus)
Iguanodontia:
Iguanodontoidea.

*Alcesauridae. (Moose Lizards)
-Alcesaurus. (Cervusaurus Terranovensis)
-Footracer Rootgnawer. (Cervusaurus Footracerensis)

-Pachycephalosauria.
Pachycephalosauroidae:
*Macrocephalosauridae (Giant Heads)
-Giant Head (Macrocephalus Longiceps)
-Rammer (Arietocephalus Armamentorum)
*Dracocornidae. (Horned Dragons)
-Victoria's Dragon (Dracocephalus Victor)
-Essex Dragonhead (Dracocephalus Essexii)
*Armocephalidae. (Armorheads)
-Emperor Armorhead (Armocephalus Imperialis)
-Black Armorhead (Armocephalus Iberiensis)
-Welsh Armorhead (Armocephalus Britanicus)

Graminodraconia.
Graminodraconidae:
Afrodraconidae:

*Dracopantheridae. (Drakepanthers)
-Speed Hunter (Dracopanthera Velocifex)
*Silvadracopantheridae. (Jungle Drakepanthers)
-Jungle Drakepanther (Silvadraconis Africana)
-Carrion Drakepanther (Carodraconis Cariosus)
-Arboreal Drakepanther (Arborodraconis Congolensis)
Sinodraconidae:
*Sinodraconidae. (Chinese Dragons)
-Chinese Dragon (Sinodraconis Paradoxus)
-Chinese Steppe Dragon (Sinodraconis Cursoris)

Next, i may come up with Pterosaurs.
Edited by Black_Panther, May 11 2010, 02:47 PM.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Pando
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Descriptions would be nice.

But wow, that's a long list.
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Black_Panther
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Pandorasaurus
May 11 2010, 02:34 PM
Descriptions would be nice.

But wow, that's a long list.
Thanks.
Working on 'em.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Ook
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i like dracoverse...thanks to your picture,called dracoverse africa(or something like that)..i like that big mammals living alongside to dinosaurs
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Black_Panther
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A quick description of Tyrannosaurs:

Tyrannosauroidea:
Tyrannosauroids are amongst the top predator families of Dracoverse-earth; being present on fossil records since the early cretaceous, with forms like the Stokesosaurus; continuing to evolve into well-known predators at the end of the cretaceous, specially gigantic monsters like Tyrannosaurus Rex and Tarbosaurus Bataar.
At the end of the cretaceous, the Tyrannosaurs were one of the four succesful carnivorous families, along with the prolific deinonychosaurs, the bizarre allosauroids and the dwindling abelisaurs. With the extinction of most predatorial dinosaurs in Eurasia (with Oviraptors being the only survival predators after an oscure extinction event circa 60 million years ago), Allosaurians ruling South America and Australia; and Carnotaurines relegated to Africa and Madagascar; Tyrannosaurs only saw competition in the form of small deinonychosaurs and the short-lived Paleocene Therioraptors (raptors with Therizinosaur-like claws, evolved to hunt a successful yet short-lived, heavyset therizinosaur species only known as the Feathershield).
Tyrannosaurs remained unchanged, developing huge forms throughout the Paleocene and Eocene, with Tyrannosaurus Rex-like forms including the Montanatyrannus and the Thunderbird. During the Miocene, larger forms disappeared, with the largest tyrannosaurs having a maximum size similar to that of the Cretaceous Nanotyrannus; and with the apparition of the Cornohadrines, some Tyrannosaurs evolved into cursorial forms, fitted for high-speed chasing.
With the closing of the Panama Seaway during the Pliocene, smaller Tyrannosaurs moved to South America, though most of them became extinct. Small, forest dwelling species developed, forming the Theriotyrannids. Non-feathered tyrannosaurs evolved in the deserts and the great american prairies, thus appearing the Dracotyrannids.
Feathered species continued to thrive, moving to the northern, colder areas of the continent.
Tyrannosaurs in South America were outcompeted by abelisaurs, ancestors of the modern Argentodraconids and Incasaurians; the only large predators capable of having a chance against the high-speed herbivores and the terror birds.
The Pleistocene saw a decline of both Tyrannosaurs and deinonychosaurs on Western North America and colder areas, specially after Ceratopsians and Hadrosaurs became scarce, only having a dozen of species present during the Ice Ages. Small, cursorial Tyrannosaurs were unable to hunt large mammals, and were unable to compete against pack hunting wolves, hyenas and big cats. Finally, the Ice Age saw the apparition of Avityrannids, large dinosaurs that thrived on the large megafauna incoming from Eurasia via the Bering Land Bridge, as well as the thick-plumaged Snow Dragons.
Larger tyrannosaurs became restricted to northernmost America, the only place with large land mammals and therizinosaurs; with the speedy Dracotyrannids living through all of the Great Plains, and Eastern North America. The largest Dracotyrannid, the Black Tyrant, appeared recently, during the end of the Ice Age; to become the only north american predator aside of the Huntsdrake, able to hunt the largest Krizanoceratopsians and Macrohadrosaurs.
Edited by Black_Panther, May 24 2010, 09:12 PM.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

That was quick?

I hate to be a bore, but i would have thought that maniraptorans would outcompete tyrannosaurs after the cretaceous. With all the prey declining and whatnot.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Black_Panther
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Holbenilord
May 20 2010, 11:44 AM
That was quick?

I hate to be a bore, but i would have thought that maniraptorans would outcompete tyrannosaurs after the cretaceous. With all the prey declining and whatnot.
That was quick for me. :xD:

Anyway...hmmm...maniraptorans...maybe, though i had to get an excuse to keep tyrannosaurs alive in the Dracoverse (im a big fan of tyrannosaurs).
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

I like 'em too (though i prefer allosaurs).
Well, if we had a lot of surviving hadrosaurs, taking large niches the raptors can't attack, perhaps they can find a place. Looks like they're in. ;)
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Black_Panther
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Holbenilord
May 25 2010, 12:11 PM
I like 'em too (though i prefer allosaurs).
Well, if we had a lot of surviving hadrosaurs, taking large niches the raptors can't attack, perhaps they can find a place. Looks like they're in. ;)
Yup, because hadrosaurs take basically the niche of buffaloes and heavy browsers throughout North America, with the smallest species being roughly the size of an elk. Dracoversian raptors specialize in hunting ungulates and deer, as well as small therizinosaurs or whatever isn't larger than a horse.
Tyrannosaurs still hunt larger and slower prey, like the heavier ceratopsians and hadrosaurs.
http://spidervenom022.deviantart.com

Go in there for some odd stuff that could make you puke, and ask for some free sketches. :)
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

But the juveniles of these will still be predated (not pre-dated) by raptors, of course. That little extra evolutionary pressure.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Margaret Pye
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Minor nitpick: Nanotyrannus turned out not to be a species. It's just the baby of something much larger.

Have you read Dave Hone's "babykillers" article? The basic thesis is that dinosaur R-selection allowed predators to mainly eat juveniles, and most predators attacked adults only occasionally. Makes sense to me - most predators take juveniles whenever they can get them, and there were a lot more juveniles about in the Mesozoic. And he backs it up with an analysis of large theropods' fossilised stomach contents. Obviously it shouldn't be taken as anything more than a generalisation, but it strikes me as a very sensible generalisation.
My speculative dinosaur project. With lots of fluff, parental care and mammalian-level intelligence, and the odd sophont.
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Holben
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Rumbo a la Victoria

On picking on juveniles- pretty much all pack hunters search for the weak and young, even ones with high velocity rifles.
Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea.

"It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."
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Cephylus
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Yeah I think maniraptorans may outcompete tyrannosaurs in many places
so I think most tyrannosaurs may get a bit smaller in their size, more formidable and fast-running predators.
But larger prey CAN allow tyrannosaurs to retain their gigantic size in some corners, like your Black Dragon. Unless raptors all get as large as utahraptors, it'll be kind of hard for them to hunt gigantic hardrosaurs, therizinosaurs and ceratopsians, and since your hardrosaurs are larger than elks at the least, that'll allow larger tyrannosaurs to survive
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