Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web.

While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous.

Join our community today!

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Living Spaceships
Topic Started: Jul 8 2009, 02:38 PM (2,632 Views)
SIngemeister
Member Avatar
Hive Tyrant of the Essee Swarm

Before I start, I did not put this in one of the subforms as I'm not sure which it fits into - Biology, due to the fact the spaceships are alive, or tech because they're spaceships.

I've always wondered if living spaceships, such as those of Nemo Ramjet's toolbreeders, tyranid hive ships and Tardises are possible (not with time travel). Are there no biological, chemical, quantum or physical difficulties with this?
My Deviantart

RRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!!!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Giant Blue Anteater
Member Avatar
Prime Specimen
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Let's say this spaceship was derived from a shrimp, highly changed from its ancestral form due to the tool-breeder's mastery of genetic engineering.

As long as there is a huge oxygen supply (stored in a gigantic sac) that would last the spaceship the time it takes to get to its destination, then it is fine. Perhaps a high-calorie substance stored in a modified gut would feed the ship and its occupants for the whole trip, as jetting in space would require a huge amount of energy. Algal symbiotes would provide both food and facilitate an oxygen cycle for the colonists and the ship.

As for propulsion into space, I would think that methane fuel would stored in a huge multi-chambered rectum along with a type of igniter would be good, and a thick layer of chitin and mucus would stop the creature from burning. But why go through all that trouble eating and storing methane for the long space trip, when you could alternatively be a water rocket? Or you could flap your way into the top of the stratosphere with huge wings and then use your fuel to jet into space. A thick umbrella of chitin would shield the rest of the body from the ozone layer.

The fuel sacs would have to be so big that they bulge well outside the body in order to provide enough for the trip.

As for landing, the colonists would load into landing ships derived from a crab would be covered with a thick layer of chitin to deal with the ozone layer of the new planet. Then the ships splash into the new ocean and the colonists load out, bringing their genetic supplies to build their new city. The ship in in orbit dies when it runs out of food or oxygen.
Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Jul 8 2009, 06:24 PM.
Ichthyostega

Posted Image

cdk007
 
Intelligence is awareness of ignorance. Stupidity is ignorance of ignorance. Think about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Though shouldn't a gigantic organism suffer from the effects of gravity while stationed on a planet?
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Giant Blue Anteater
Member Avatar
Prime Specimen
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
My example would be mostly underwater, until it launches itself into the sky. Perhaps some novel method of pressurizing the body until it reaches space could be done, or an advanced calcium support.

But should something really be a wierd shrimp of lumps of chitn housing multi-chambered fuel sacs or oxygen sacs around its body? The living space ship could be something completely unrecognizable from its ancestral forms, and furiously modified to be a device to transport souls from the home planet to another extraterrestrial world.
Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Jul 8 2009, 09:07 PM.
Ichthyostega

Posted Image

cdk007
 
Intelligence is awareness of ignorance. Stupidity is ignorance of ignorance. Think about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Viridian
Member Avatar
Amateur Xenobiologist
 *  *  *
If I were developing living spaceships I would design a large main vessel which remained in orbit and many smaller vessles for shuttling between the main ship and planetary surfaces.

This way you avoid problems with gravity crushing your specially constructed space life-form.

The living ship would not need any kind of method for procuring its own food/water/oxygen as long as there were crew members available to re-stock its resourse tanks when necessary.

The main vessel could contain a central bio-mechanical organ which it used to control an anti-matter reaction to power all onboard electronics and electro-neural systems. The Anti-matter reactor would also provide thust.

Due to the enormous energy/mass yield from the anti-matter reaction the living ship could store enough anti-matter to provide power for extreme long-haul journeys.

Anti-matter, however, is somewhat difficult to obtain at the moment... Actually, genetic engineering on the scale required for this is a little beyond our reach at the moment too... Perhaps in a century or so...
Out of nowhere, you are attacked by a snarling, biting mass of felt shaped like a raccoon! This is the single angriest puppet you’ve ever seen, and it’s not cookies that it wants to eat…
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Giant Blue Anteater
Member Avatar
Prime Specimen
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
That's good, but what about from a civilization that relies exclusively on genetically modified organisms, no cold metals involved? Those are the likeliest to use living spaceships.

As for crew members restocking the ships vital resources, I think it would only work in an orbital space station. In interstellar travels, where would they get their resources from?

As for antimatter production, I don't think it would be possible in an organism, but it is more likely in a machine, but to produce it fast may require some creative thinking.

Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Jul 8 2009, 09:35 PM.
Ichthyostega

Posted Image

cdk007
 
Intelligence is awareness of ignorance. Stupidity is ignorance of ignorance. Think about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Carlos
Member Avatar
Adveho in me Lucifero
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I think that a civilazation that relies totally on living tissues would have to be alien, because on terrestrial organisms there's a general incapability of shaping living organic naturally. I guess so sort of invertebrate or sentient non-animal orrganism could be a potential candidate for this civilazation, but otherwise...

In any case, I think PETA would be screaming and shouting about all of this :rolleyes:
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

My Patreon:

https://www.patreon.com/Carliro

Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Temporary
Transhuman
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I don't think modifying an organism that already exists for space travel would be a good idea, it would be better to start from scratch.

Design the ship to work as an ecosystem. Some of the ship is made of plant or fungal like tissue, other parts animal tissue. From here you have a carbon cycle and breathable air always ready for use. The tissue could grow food.

Propolsion would be based on solar sails, this seems the most likely for a living craft, which also double as massive photo-synthesiszers. An electric rocket system and an methane rocket (as mentioned earlier) should also be built into the craft.

Hibernation or similar stasis is a must, so energy use is kept low.

For new matter and nutrition, a ramjet system could be used and a few check points near planets to pick out organic matter.

Lastly, as with the problem for living astronauts, radiation. Since we're starting from scratch we may be able to make the crafts' DNA radiation resistance like some extremeophiles, but I would also like to use large amounts of melanin and other pigments to help block out some more radiation. We may also be able to use an Electro-magnetic shield, but on a living craft that may take up to much energy.
Quote:
 
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear


I'm here.

Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Should we bring back Recon? Click here to share your opinion.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Giant Blue Anteater
Member Avatar
Prime Specimen
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *
JohnFaa
Jul 9 2009, 03:50 AM
I think that a civilazation that relies totally on living tissues would have to be alien, because on terrestrial organisms there's a general incapability of shaping living organic naturally. I guess so sort of invertebrate or sentient non-animal orrganism could be a potential candidate for this civilazation, but otherwise...

In any case, I think PETA would be screaming and shouting about all of this :rolleyes:
I don't think it's all that impossible. Life isn't modified via some sort of wacky method, it is done the traditional way, forcing other animals to mate with eachother to get the desired result, and this method is advanced when you modify the creatures for many generations until they lack any will of their own. And modifying tissue into anything you want, of course that can't be done naturally, it would have to be done with a complex brain.

As for PETA, you're sure right about that. But that's their way of living and survival, you can't do anything about it.

Temporary
 
I don't think modifying an organism that already exists for space travel would be a good idea, it would be better to start from scratch.

Design the ship to work as an ecosystem. Some of the ship is made of plant or fungal like tissue, other parts animal tissue. From here you have a carbon cycle and breathable air always ready for use. The tissue could grow food.

Propolsion would be based on solar sails, this seems the most likely for a living craft, which also double as massive photo-synthesiszers. An electric rocket system and an methane rocket (as mentioned earlier) should also be built into the craft.

Hibernation or similar stasis is a must, so energy use is kept low.

For new matter and nutrition, a ramjet system could be used and a few check points near planets to pick out organic matter.

Lastly, as with the problem for living astronauts, radiation. Since we're starting from scratch we may be able to make the crafts' DNA radiation resistance like some extremeophiles, but I would also like to use large amounts of melanin and other pigments to help block out some more radiation. We may also be able to use an Electro-magnetic shield, but on a living craft that may take up to much energy.


You know, this is a better idea, because at this point they'd already be able to completely grow tissues from scratch and make them into whatever things they want, no animals needed.

But what about electric rockets? How would those work? Also, I think creating an electromagnetic field is impossible in an organism.
Ichthyostega

Posted Image

cdk007
 
Intelligence is awareness of ignorance. Stupidity is ignorance of ignorance. Think about it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
lamna
Member Avatar


Quote:
 
Design the ship to work as an ecosystem. Some of the ship is made of plant or fungal like tissue, other parts animal tissue. From here you have a carbon cycle and breathable air always ready for use. The tissue could grow food.


Like flying by pulling yourself up by the belt. This system would rapidly run out of energy. It takes tons and tons of food to keep large animals going. Whales can't live very long on their own poop.

Organic components might be useful in a ship. Perhaps nerves and a brain would be useful from control, but the whole ship? It's like Dixon's Vacuumorphs. Might just be possible, but the inorganic approach (space ships and suits) will be much cheaper and easier.
Living Fossils

Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural


34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
T.Neo
 
Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
[flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Temporary
Transhuman
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
Quote:
 
Like flying by pulling yourself up by the belt. This system would rapidly run out of energy. It takes tons and tons of food to keep large animals going. Whales can't live very long on their own poop.


You misunderstand, the food isn't meant for the ship, the food is meant for us. The animal-tissue would live off the photosynthesizing plant tissue, like the stem of a plant.
Quote:
 
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear


I'm here.

Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Should we bring back Recon? Click here to share your opinion.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ATEK Azul
Member Avatar
Transhuman
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
I think a cyborg ship would be much better than both organic and technological, how? I have no idea but it is an option.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Genesis
Member Avatar
Newborn
 *  *  *
This reminds me of the Creatures videogame series. The species that the main character was a part of (the Shee) suposedly eliminated every genetic deformation, difficulty, issue, and weakness in their DNA long before they invented the wheel. (Comparitively, they would rather create miles of machinery to grow and harvest a vegetable miles away, than grow one right where they are, or move to that location.) They grew their own ships in test tubes, then tubs, and finally lakes and seas, and ended up with massive, deep-space bio-ships that ran on bioelectric power and contained hundreds of 'terrariums' filled with living things for the Shee to mess around with the DNA of.
Important: DO NOT INSULT ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP ON THIS SITE OR ANY ZETABOARDS BOARD
To insult religion is derogatory material prohibited by the Zetaboards Terms of Service.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
ATEK Azul
Member Avatar
Transhuman
 *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
They sound like a very interesting species can you give any other info on them? They also sound like aztec equivilents with the whole wheel part.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Genesis
Member Avatar
Newborn
 *  *  *
Though the concepts of the game are complex and intriguing, it also included spiders, ants, indestructible hawks, wasps, and genetically modified lemons, so the scientific accuracy was questionable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatures_(artificial_life_program)
http://creatures.wikia.com/wiki/Creatures_Wiki_Homepage

These two can give you all the information you want on the series, which I'm afraid has little or no hope of revival.




The main issue I see with an organic ship is simply that other methods would be easier, and less dangerous.

By 'dangerous', I mean that any sort of immune system, adaptive deoxyribonucleic acid sequences, sentience, or even slight inconsistencies within millions and millions of strings of DNA could lead to the ship seeing its creators and passengers as foreign bodies to be destroyed.

Of course, if we CAN control a sentient, sapient ship of its own 'will', then things will go very well for us, but I don't think it's worth the risk for large-scale testing without something being accomplished at the scale of rodents easily. Right now, as close as we can come is biofilm, and there are whole dimensions of difference there.

Of course, it is a very intriguing concept.

Linkbot/Temporary, I can't help but think of your Paragons' various technologies from the Andromeda Site.
Edited by Genesis, Jul 9 2009, 11:34 PM.
Important: DO NOT INSULT ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP ON THIS SITE OR ANY ZETABOARDS BOARD
To insult religion is derogatory material prohibited by the Zetaboards Terms of Service.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums. Reliable service with over 8 years of experience.
Learn More · Register for Free
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · General Spec · Next Topic »
Add Reply