Future Predators of Humans

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Future Predators of Humans
Topic Started: May 17 2009, 06:07 PM (9,984 Views)
rufus	May 17 2009, 06:07 PM Post #1
Newborn Posts: 37 Group: Members Member #171 Joined: May 14, 2009	I rememebr that once in Peter Ward's book he mentions the differnt things that could possibly thin the human population. He mentioned, then dismissed at once the possibility of a new sort of predator. As he correctly observes, any such predator would be quickly elininated or contained if it started preying on our species. Humans would simply not allow ourselves or our children to become food. But that got me to thinking. Suppose some future genetic scientist, engineered some sort of future predator to prey upon humans, perhaps as a way of cleansing the population of :defectives" or undesirables". The species could be genetically programed to hunt only humans as a food source. And it might be programed to eliminate only those humans who carried certain traits such as genetic maladies. This would have to be done in such a way that the human population would not know what was happening, and could not take the action needed to eliminate the predators. This creature would be engineered from humans themselves.The creature could have engineered traits from other animal species, such as camaflauge abilites, and perhaps sonar from bats to stun their prey. BTW, I thought of this idea long before that "future predator" thing from Primeval, and I thought of posting this today, even before I read that other thread. I also thought of making this idea into a story, in which the heor has to find who is releasing and controlling these predators and how to stop them. I usually try not to bash genetic science in my stories, like some authors do, but in this case the plot would demand that I do have a rogue geneticist.

Replies:
T.Neo	Jan 5 2010, 01:35 PM Post #241
Translunar injection: TLI Posts: 6,154 Group: Members Member #179 Joined: Jun 7, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Quote: Humans have a tendency to rely on proved methods of killing, like guns. Humans tend to rely on a proved method of anything, unless the situation requires innovation. Quote: Anything with scutes or thick armour would be immune. Unless this armor were made of millimeters thick steel, nothing could be further from the truth. Natural armor is a pitiful defence against firearms. Quote: Anything liqueous or gaseous would be immune. Seriously now, how would a gaseous or liquid form of life work? How would it keep itself together? How would it even evolve and survive? I can see a "slime mold" like lifeform that lacks organs or any defined shape (and would thus be immune to firearms), but it could still be affected by something like a flamethrower. There's something far more effective then bullets too, btw. It's either chemical or biological, and it works very well if you engineer it correctly. Engineer a virus or bacterium, for example, to attack only your target species, and release it. No further work needed. Quote: And, another fault is our lack of being able to think rationally- like many non-sophontic beings. If that were true, very little of what you see in the modern world would exist. Quote: We might get pulverised by a liqueous life form that uses poison, or suffocation. In fact, that gives me the an idea- a fog which descneds from the sky and suffocates all life. Yes yes, but how would a gaseous lifeform work? How does it contain the cells? How does it avoid dispersing? How does it tranmit material within the cells? How do the cells stay afloat? And how does a liquid form of life even move? What stops it from oozing into a puddle on the ground and getting washed away? That's the problem with sophont predators. You end up having to resort to fantastical means to get them to work.
	A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.


Holben	Jan 5 2010, 01:57 PM Post #242
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	T.Neo Jan 5 2010, 01:35 PM Quote: Humans have a tendency to rely on proved methods of killing, like guns. Humans tend to rely on a proved method of anything, unless the situation requires innovation. Quote: Anything with scutes or thick armour would be immune. Unless this armor were made of millimeters thick steel, nothing could be further from the truth. Natural armor is a pitiful defence against firearms. Quote: Anything liqueous or gaseous would be immune. Seriously now, how would a gaseous or liquid form of life work? How would it keep itself together? How would it even evolve and survive? I can see a "slime mold" like lifeform that lacks organs or any defined shape (and would thus be immune to firearms), but it could still be affected by something like a flamethrower. There's something far more effective then bullets too, btw. It's either chemical or biological, and it works very well if you engineer it correctly. Engineer a virus or bacterium, for example, to attack only your target species, and release it. No further work needed. Quote: And, another fault is our lack of being able to think rationally- like many non-sophontic beings. If that were true, very little of what you see in the modern world would exist. Quote: We might get pulverised by a liqueous life form that uses poison, or suffocation. In fact, that gives me the an idea- a fog which descneds from the sky and suffocates all life. Yes yes, but how would a gaseous lifeform work? How does it contain the cells? How does it avoid dispersing? How does it tranmit material within the cells? How do the cells stay afloat? And how does a liquid form of life even move? What stops it from oozing into a puddle on the ground and getting washed away? That's the problem with sophont predators. You end up having to resort to fantastical means to get them to work. 1. Which is a bad idea. We fall back onto rubbish. 2. Actually, animals like a killer whale or elephant seal are extrememly hard to kill. And they don't even have specialised armour. 3. I'll leave that to speculation. I'm sure there have been many topics on it. We don't have the tech or funds to specifically engineer diseases. And they might not be able to be infected like our weak and crummy cells are. 4. Much of the modern tech is based around 'how do we make things easier?' Which is, by and large a=n irrational question. We've got more than enough time to do it, and we spend most of our time doing things we don't want to do anyway. 5. Gaseous predators are not fantastical, just humans are too irrational to think of a solution which doesn't involve bubbles or a dispersed consciousness. Are you a no-Et person, BTW?
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


T.Neo	Jan 5 2010, 02:41 PM Post #243
Translunar injection: TLI Posts: 6,154 Group: Members Member #179 Joined: Jun 7, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Quote: 1. Which is a bad idea. We fall back onto rubbish. You're insulting innovators everywhere. People told both the inventors of the liquid rocket engine and the jet engine that their concepts were rubbish- today they are both integral technologies in their fields of transportation. Quote: 2. Actually, animals like a killer whale or elephant seal are extrememly hard to kill. And they don't even have specialised armour. People haven't been fighting wars against killer whales or elephant seals. I assure you, that with modern military technology, neither creature would survive for very long. Quote: We don't have the tech or funds to specifically engineer diseases. Then use a chemical agent. Trap one, try various agents on it till it dies. Quote: And they might not be able to be infected like our weak and crummy cells are. I think they could be resistant to infection, but not totally immune. Their biology could however be "inedible" by our bacteria. It doesn't need to be infected, just eaten alive. If it's immune system hasn't built a natural immunity to our bacteria, it stands no chance. Quote: 4. Much of the modern tech is based around 'how do we make things easier?' Which is, by and large a=n irrational question. No it isn't, unless you're using some very odd and not widely accepted definition of "rationality". Quote: We've got more than enough time to do it There have been times when quick action is needed, such as during plagues or war. You don't think a predatory invasion would be THAT quick, do you? We still have guns/flamethrowers/firefighting equipment squirting acid, it should be able to hold anything off for long enough. Quote: and we spend most of our time doing things we don't want to do anyway. Huh? I'm afraid you've made no sense at all here... Quote: 5. Gaseous predators are not fantastical, just humans are too irrational to think of a solution which doesn't involve bubbles or a dispersed consciousness. My vision of a gaseous lifeform didn't involve either. Perhaps it'd be better if you explained what you were thinking when you suggested a gaseous predator. Quote: Are you a no-Et person, BTW? What is a no-Et person?
	A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.


Holben	Jan 5 2010, 02:57 PM Post #244
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Someone who doesn't think there are aliens. Quote: Quote: 1. Which is a bad idea. We fall back onto rubbish. You're insulting innovators everywhere. People told both the inventors of the liquid rocket engine and the jet engine that their concepts were rubbish- today they are both integral technologies in their fields of transportation. Sorry if i insulted anyone! I'm just saying we as a species aren't very advanced. Quote: Quote: 2. Actually, animals like a killer whale or elephant seal are extrememly hard to kill. And they don't even have specialised armour. People haven't been fighting wars against killer whales or elephant seals. I assure you, that with modern military technology, neither creature would survive for very long. Ok, but not too many people have HEAT projectiles, MGs or nukes. It takes out the people, then the danger. And, nukes can't destroy a tungsten block, can they? Quote: Quote: 4. Much of the modern tech is based around 'how do we make things easier?' Which is, by and large an irrational question. No it isn't, unless you're using some very odd and not widely accepted definition of "rationality". Quote: ra⋅tion⋅al⋅i⋅ty /ˌræʃəˈnælɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rash-uh-nal-i-tee] Show IPA Use rationality in a Sentence See web results for rationality See images of rationality –noun, plural -ties. 1. the state or quality of being rational. 2. the possession of reason. 3. agreeableness to reason; reasonableness. 4. the exercise of reason. 5. a reasonable view, practice, etc Quote: ra⋅tion⋅al /ˈræʃənl, ˈræʃnl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rash-uh-nl, rash-nl] Show IPA Use rational in a Sentence See web results for rational See images of rational –adjective 1. agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development. 2. having or exercising reason, sound judgment, or good sense: a calm and rational negotiator. 3. being in or characterized by full possession of one's reason; sane; lucid: The patient appeared perfectly rational. 4. endowed with the faculty of reason: rational beings. 5. of, pertaining to, or constituting reasoning powers: the rational faculty. 6. proceeding or derived from reason or based on reasoning: a rational explanation. 7. Mathematics. a. capable of being expressed exactly by a ratio of two integers. b. (of a function) capable of being expressed exactly by a ratio of two polynomials. 8. Classical Prosody. capable of measurement in terms of the metrical unit or mora. –noun 9. Mathematics. rational number. TYG. Quote: Quote: We've got more than enough time to do it There have been times when quick action is needed, such as during plagues or war. You don't think a predatory invasion would be THAT quick, do you? We still have guns/flamethrowers/firefighting equipment squirting acid, it should be able to hold anything off for long enough. It would have to be rather quick and surprising, because if we're ready, we stand a better chance. Quote: Perhaps it'd be better if you explained what you were thinking when you suggested a gaseous predator I thought something like a fog earlier. Maybe a 'bubble' in the air, which envelops the target for digestion? A liquid one? Well, slime, not being a liquid, has liqueous properties. DOOM slime!
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


lamna	Jan 5 2010, 02:59 PM Post #245
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	They are only hard to kill when you can't the bodies intact. Depth charges, missiles or even ordinary light machine gun would shred them. Making thing easier is irrational? That makes no sense at all, think of all the time we have now thanks to making things better for ourselves. It's only wasted if you think it is. Besides our ancestors wasted lots more time doing things that can be done faster, cheaper and more efficiently.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


Holben	Jan 5 2010, 03:02 PM Post #246
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Yesss, but the fact we do anything at all is irrational. If we do nothing, it doesn't cause pain. (spot the argumental flaw) If you fire an SMG at a block of, say, osmium, it does nothing. NOTHING. So, here we have our tungsten-coated creature which creeps aroung on 100 legs, and you fire a few hundred bits of metal at it at about 1700kmp/h. No effect.
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


T.Neo	Jan 5 2010, 03:37 PM Post #247
Translunar injection: TLI Posts: 6,154 Group: Members Member #179 Joined: Jun 7, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Quote: Someone who doesn't think there are aliens. Oh heavens no! We don't have any direct evidence of aliens yet, but I'd be pretty certain to say that evidence we've gathered from our own planet and solar system, as well as knowledge of physics etc makes the existence of alien life of some kind almost certain. As to it being complex, I think the possibility is certainly very high. I don't see why it couldn't evolve into complex forms elsewhere. Quote: Sorry if i insulted anyone! I'm just saying we as a species aren't very advanced. We certainly are, compared to every other lifeform we know... Quote: Ok, but not too many people have HEAT projectiles, MGs or nukes. As lamna said, even a light machine gun could shred them. A heavy machine gun (such as a 12.7 or 14.5mm) is bound to do more damage, and they are pretty common. You also have belt-fed grenade launchers, and I'd imagine they'd be pretty useful. Quote: And, nukes can't destroy a tungsten block, can they? I'm sure you could make a tungsten block disappear if the nuke detonated close enough. But it depends on the size of the block and the nuke. Quote: I thought something like a fog earlier. Maybe a 'bubble' in the air, which envelops the target for digestion? Both forms require some sort of solid structure, which can be disrupted mechanically or chemically, thus killing the organism. A fog like creature still needs a method of sending chemicals across the particles. In liquid this is possible, in gas it is very very difficult at best. Quote: A liquid one? Well, slime, not being a liquid, has liqueous properties. I think I suggested a slimemold-like organism earlier. But it could still be "killed" through the use of flamethrowers or toxic chemicals. Quote: If we do nothing, it doesn't cause pain. Neither does it cause pleasure. We also have needs, along with wants, and if we don't meet our needs via doing stuff, we die. Quote: If you fire an SMG at a block of, say, osmium, it does nothing. You don't need to get that exotic. Firing an SMG at a large enough block of steel also does very little to it. Quote: So, here we have our tungsten-coated creature which creeps aroung on 100 legs, and you fire a few hundred bits of metal at it at about 1700kmp/h. No effect. It it's coated in tungsten (or even steel) it won't be moving around very fast, and certainly won't pose much of a threat, unless the armour was quite thin and thus more vulnerable. It could theoretically have perhaps a titanium or even an organic (or perhaps mineral) armour shell. If you can't use a SMG, use an HMG using AP rounds. 14.5 mm is able to penetrate a fair amount of armor steel. A high energy grenade launcher could probably kill the animal from the shockwave alone, if it were close enough. And perhaps even an inert round could too... people get brain injuries from knocks to the head, due to what are essentially shockwaves travelling through the bone and into the brain. I don't see why the same couldn't happen from a large calibre round hitting the creature's exterior shell. It's like shooting fish in a barrel; you don't have to hit the fish, it dies anyway from the shockwave caused by the passing of the bullet. The armor also has to be jointed to allow the animal to move. You'll have breathing holes, feeding/excreting holes and sensory holes too, which are weak spots. And you can always cook or poison the animal within it's shell. Tungsten would make a nice oven for the creature inside.
	A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.


Holben	Jan 5 2010, 03:59 PM Post #248
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Rather mean.
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


T.Neo	Jan 5 2010, 04:08 PM Post #249
Translunar injection: TLI Posts: 6,154 Group: Members Member #179 Joined: Jun 7, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Yes, but the creature wants to eat you- so I ask the question, you or it?
	A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.


Temporary	Jan 5 2010, 04:36 PM Post #250
Transhuman Posts: 2,092 Group: Members Member #167 Joined: Apr 29, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology Nationality: USA	The idea that humans are somehow immuned to predation is flawed. It follows the assumption that, if we had a predator, it would be like all the predators we destroyed before. This is assumption is flawed because, depending on it's prey an animal will make special adaptations to hunt it. This is not too far off of an idea. The Aye-aye uses it's long finger to pull out insects. Certain fish use spitting to get it's prey that lives in dry land. When an organism hunts it's prey, the predator is built for the purpose of getting and eating it's prey. So saying we would hunt it down and killing it makes no sense. It would have evolved ways to prevent this very thing.
	Quote: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear I'm here. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Should we bring back Recon? Click here to share your opinion.


lamna	Jan 5 2010, 05:08 PM Post #251
Posts: 21,140 Group: Global Mods Member #26 Joined: Jul 1, 2008 Gender: Male Nationality: British	Yeah but we would have killed it before it got the chance to evolve. Humans have beaten evolution with our brains. We can control the world like no other animal. We would have to make the predator for it to stand a chance. Also tungsten is not that strong. From Wikipedia. A steel-gray metal, tungsten is found in several ores, including wolframite and scheelite. It is remarkable for its robust physical properties, especially the fact that it has the highest melting point of all the non-alloyed metals and the second highest of all the elements after carbon. Tungsten is often brittle and hard to work in its raw state; however, if pure, it can be cut with a hacksaw. So not atom bomb proof. Edited by lamna, Jan 5 2010, 05:11 PM.
	Living Fossils Fósseis Vibos: Reserva Natural 34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur. T.Neo Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna? [flash=500,450] Video Magic! [/flash]


The Dodo	Jan 5 2010, 05:08 PM Post #252
Prime Specimen Posts: 1,382 Group: Members Member #189 Joined: Jul 26, 2009 Gender: Male Nationality: Australian	I see your point, but I'm having trouble thinking up any special adaptations this creature would have to hunt humans.



Temporary	Jan 5 2010, 06:22 PM Post #253
Transhuman Posts: 2,092 Group: Members Member #167 Joined: Apr 29, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology Nationality: USA	Higher intelligence would be a start. Or perhaps a way of killing that keeps us from knowing it did it somehow? I don't know, just tossing around ideas.
	Quote: When the student is ready, the teacher will appear I'm here. Uploaded with ImageShack.us Should we bring back Recon? Click here to share your opinion.


T.Neo	Jan 6 2010, 07:03 AM Post #254
Translunar injection: TLI Posts: 6,154 Group: Members Member #179 Joined: Jun 7, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	Quote: Yeah but we would have killed it before it got the chance to evolve. Indeed. Evolution is no match against sapience, unless you're a bacterium... Quote: Also tungsten is not that strong. Indeed. In real-world military applications, strong grades of steel are used. I'd imagine a organic material or some sort mineral would be a better bet for natural armor. Quote: Higher intelligence would be a start. Only if it were a sophont. And even then, if wouldn't help much unless they were very prolific or they had technology advanced enough to at least be effective against ours. Quote: Or perhaps a way of killing that keeps us from knowing it did it somehow? How do you do that? If people go missing, we notice. If people go missing and leave gory puddles of blood, we notice. Less so if they're homeless vagrants.
	A hard mathematical figure provides a sort of enlightenment to one's understanding of an idea that is never matched by mere guesswork.


Holben	Jan 6 2010, 08:46 AM Post #255
Rumbo a la Victoria Posts: 14,335 Group: Admin Member #220 Joined: Sep 18, 2009 Area of expertise: Xenobiology	And tungsten carbide? One of the hardest things us humans have. Humans haven't explored every millimetre of the jungles and oceans, and indeed, viruses and bactria arise in our own back yard. We haven't explored every cave or the interior of every cloud, and we don't even check what's in our food. Rather vulnerable when we don't expect things. For all our guns, we couldn't beat an asteroid.
	Time flows like a river. Which is to say, downhill. We can tell this because everything is going downhill rapidly. It would seem prudent to be somewhere else when we reach the sea. "It is the old wound my king. It has never healed."


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