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Anyone else see the movie "Gattaca" (1997)?
Topic Started: May 7 2009, 12:33 PM (500 Views)
Yorick
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I absolutely love it. It's a shame that Jude Law or the beautiful score by Michael Nyman wasn't Oscar-nominated.

Anyway, could that great movie ever become a reality? Will there one day be genetic apartheid?

Note: By the way, I'm a movie fanatic and am even studying filmmaking. That's why you have, you are and you will continue to see many movie related questions and comments and references from me
"I believe, that whatever doesn't kill you, simply makes you...stranger"

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lamna
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I have not seen it but the premise seems to be that there is a fellow with a medical condition that means he cannot be a astronaut, so he tricks NASA into thinking he is not ill and so puts the lives of his crew mates, the missions success and tax payer money on the line.

And the message to take away from the film seems to be that NASA should not relax the physical test for prospective astronauts.
Edited by lamna, May 7 2009, 02:50 PM.
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truteal
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I watched it at school for a project (the teacher even gave me a burned copy which I still have)

and shouldn't this be in General Discussion?
My sporadically updated Youtube page

Do you get it? I hardly ever come here so I'm like something a cryptozoologist would study
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lamna
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As for a genetic apartheid? Improved people will be able to do some jobs that normal people cannot, but how is that different to men and women working?

We manage to be pretty fair when dealing with those not as physical strong, and we are getting better all the time. What makes you think we will start moving backwards?
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lamna
May 7 2009, 01:53 PM
I have not seen it but the premise seems to be that there is a fellow with a medical condition that means he cannot be a astronaut, so he tricks NASA into thinking he is not ill and so puts the lives of his crew mates, the missions success and tax payer money on the line.

And the message to take away from the film seems to be that NASA should not relax the physical test for prospective astronauts.
Actually, in the film he's told he has a x% probability (I think it's up there in the 90s) of having a certain heart condition at a certain age (30?), due to a drop of blood that was taken from him during birth, but it's never actually proven that he has it.

So, although it's never disclosed whether he actually was ill (even the main character didn't find out for certain) he never shows any symptoms throughout the film and it seems that his health and fitness is above average. Though he does struggle to compete with the 'valids'. The bit that iffed with me was, while he was being monitored on the treadmill he had to use a recording of a heartbeat, because his own was showing that he was straining to keep up with the pace. Which just cries "CHEAT!".

I see what you mean though. While it's fair to give people the opportunity to prove themselves (which, in this film, the in-valids don't even get to do), it should still always be the best for the job that get the job.

In response to the OP, I enjoyed the film's entertainment value, but didn't really put much thought into the messages behind it (and fast-forwarded past all the sickly romance). To be honest, I don't see it as a very probable future, either.
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Yorick
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To be honest, I don't see it as a very probable future, either.


And why is that?
Edited by Yorick, May 14 2009, 11:46 AM.
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lamna
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If you mean why is that, because this is the 21st century. We are moving forward not back and getting better able to live with diversity.

Besides how is someone choosing that their child will be great, worse than rolling the dice and getting a great child.

I expect if their is any discrimination, it will be to the modified people. I can see people adding non-modified to affirmative action nonsense for "equality"
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Yorick
May 13 2009, 05:04 PM
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To be honest, I don't see it as a very probable future, either.


And what is that?
I'm not all that sure, call it a gut feeling.

While I have to disagree that discrimination is being eliminated over time (I just think it's being shifted around), I also feel that genetic enhancements may be more probable than simply artificially selecting the best traits from the parents, though the latter may go in hand with the former.

The reason I think that is that I feel that our freedoms will be a lot more restricted in the future, and those in power (not the society) will begin to segregate people of different genetic backgrounds as a means of creating different sub-groups of humans bred to carry out specific tasks within the community, to make the whole community become more efficient. Kind of like ants or bees, where the good of society comes before the good of the individual.

If things do go in that direction, I don't think there will be very many naturally conceived humans for very long, or that it will be the altered humans that end up being discriminated against and used like a tool.

Not the future I'd like, but to me the most probable.

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lamna
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I think that is horribly unlikely while nations that value the right of the individual remain powerful.
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Besides how is someone choosing that their child will be great, worse than rolling the dice and getting a great child.


The idea of 'designing' children is disgusting. Like a healthy baby isn't good enough.

Watch this great sci-fi TV series called "The Outer Limits." (The nineties remake of course.) Particularly, the episode starring Alan Ruck. Maybe that'll make you rethink about the consequences of genetic engineering to create a designer child.

Truth be told, I'm all for genetic engineering to eliminate diseases but deformities but control behavior and desire like making people resistant to the abuse of alcohol like the movie showed? Or using it as a new form of cosmetic by giving a girl a gene so they can later develop bigger breasts or fuller lips?

Basically, use genetic engineering to... say.... fix thyroid conditions or genetic pre-dispositions to weight gain but not make a person want to eat less and exercise more by some gene taking away some of their free will. In the future, if a person is fat and unhealthy or not, it's because they CHOOSE to be that way through their lifestyle choice. Or use technology to prevent paralysis or muscle atrophy diseases in a person but not give them the ability to run faster than intended if he/she would be born with any such condition. So if this person ever wants to be a track star, heir victory or defeat will be blamed only on the strength of their exercise and the competition rather than their genes. Use genetic engineering to end mental retardation, autism, Alzheimer's, etc. but not make anyone unusually smarter or have better memory and let them become geniuses or idiots based on their own drive to study hard.

Get what I'm saying? Use genetic engineering only to make everyone a blank slate, an equal footing and let their personal choices and their upbringing create their character an set their own achievements.
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lamna
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No, I don't get what you are saying. You are saying that everyone has to be forced to be equal, everyone has to be normal, nobody can be allowed to excel.

That is a nightmare future, humanity being held back, everyone living average lives achieving average things. Excellence is beaten down, distilled until it is all but homoeopathic. Everyone forced to conform.
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I'm not saying that AT ALL and you know it!

If I really was for forcing no one to excel and be equal in everything, I'd be calling for Kurt Vonnegut's "Harrison Bergeron" world where people wear handicaps in their daily lives. THAT'S being held back.

What I propose is that everyone get the same opportunity to either succeed or fail.

If anything, excellence in your future wouldn't be celebrated because there's no fun in seeing mutants win races and are criticized for their efforts.
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lamna
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I can't quite see the difference between the two, but both our visions are extreme.

Imagine people debating like this when cars were first sold.
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lamna
May 7 2009, 01:53 PM
I have not seen it but the premise seems to be that there is a fellow with a medical condition that means he cannot be a astronaut, so he tricks NASA into thinking he is not ill and so puts the lives of his crew mates, the missions success and tax payer money on the line.

And the message to take away from the film seems to be that NASA should not relax the physical test for prospective astronauts.
The idea behind the film was that in the future the knowledge of genetics allowed people to be modified before birth to be perfect. Natural born people were looked down upon as they were inferior. In fact in the film they say they have "gotten discrimination down to an exact science." It wasn't just NASA that discriminated, it was every single business and agency in the world. A simple handshake could give your DNA to your boss who could then figure out all your flaws, should you be natural born.

The main character wanted to be an astronaut but couldn't because he was a natural born and I think had some kind of heart condition. He wanted to go on the mission to Titan (to find life, nonetheless) not really to fulfill his dream of becoming an astronaut but to show that even if you're imperfect you can still accomplish great things. It's really a good film, you should watch it sometime.
We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar.

"The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming

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lamna
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I might, but most films with a premise like this seem anti-science. Perhaps they meant it as a cautionary tale, but that won't be the way the public sees it.
But it is has a space mission in it then I will watch it.

The Honorverse series has a background story where earth was wrecked in Earth's Final War where the excesses of biotechnology lead the "Ukrainian Supermen" to launch a devastating war of conquest.
It is set in the far past of the book, but the war meant that Bogotá was the city with the planets foremost university, and that "Genies" like the protagonist were looked down on for a time, and saying that you are one is not common.
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