| Speculative biology is simultaneously a science and form of art in which one speculates on the possibilities of life and evolution. What could the world look like if dinosaurs had never gone extinct? What could alien lifeforms look like? What kinds of plants and animals might exist in the far future? These questions and more are tackled by speculative biologists, and the Speculative Evolution welcomes all relevant ideas, inquiries, and world-building projects alike. With a member base comprising users from across the world, our community is the largest and longest-running place of gathering for speculative biologists on the web. While unregistered users are able to browse the forum on a basic level, registering an account provides additional forum access not visible to guests as well as the ability to join in discussions and contribute yourself! Registration is free and instantaneous. Join our community today! |
| Applying Terran Anatomical Trends on Alien Life; Shows great lack of imagination. | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 29 2009, 05:04 PM (1,913 Views) | |
| Giant Blue Anteater | Apr 29 2009, 05:04 PM Post #1 |
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Prime Specimen
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I find it annoying how some people say that, because how how splendid anatomical inventions as well as their configurations are on Earth, they apply those principles on alien life; any creature not following Terran anatomical trends is preposterous and unplausible. Basically, they say that because of how successful Earth anatomy, life will universally follow this model. Firstly, how do you know? Scientifically, we do not really know what alien life looks like, but it is most likely going to be different. There are many factors that affect the evolution of life, even on this world, such as geological configurations, atmospheric composition, gravity, mass extinctions, and other factors. Also, imagine different paths evolution can take. While that is not to say that there will not be many similarities to Earth life due to convergent evolution, that dosen't mean that life out there will anatomically replicate Earth life. Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Apr 29 2009, 08:18 PM.
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| Empyreon | Jun 2 2009, 04:46 PM Post #16 |
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Are you plausible?
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I feel the need to clarify a little. I didn't mean to say that the work on Snaiad was implausible, or that Nemo Ramjet is out in left field. I only meant to say that to claim that, in light of the fact that speculative biology is speculative, it can't be called random. Nemo Ramjet does incredible, well thought, and highly plausible work. I wish my feeble mind could wrap itself around the science that he's included in his life forms. I guess, more than anything else, what I wanted to draw attention to is the perennial Terro-centrism debate. For one to declare unequivocally that alien life must follow explicit patterns on Earth is, in the strictest sense of the term, preposterous. It's like saying that every computer must be a PC/Mac, and not recognize anything else; that in order for a computer to exist, it must precisely follow not only the details of hardware, but even the codified software must conform to specific patterns. But the coin has another side. Just like we must never assume that what we've seen on Earth is all we can see, neither must we dismiss familiar forms in favor of the bizarre. alienboy pointed out that chemical organization, senses, and manipulators are plausible requisites for alien life forms (at least as far as we can understand them), and I agree. I guess the secret is to find a bit of a balance. Don't make creatures that are specifically a scorpion with a tiger head and butterfly wings, but don't make things so unrecognizable that nobody can understand what they're looking at. After all, these are creations by humans, for humans. I love the ideas Giant Blue Anteater came up with. A creature has to eat, but who says it has to make its food chewers out of modified gill arches? Who says that said food chewers even have to connect directly to the esophagus? Clearly there is logic in connecting them, but what if you can come up with a reason why that didn't come about? If you can think of a plausible explanation for things, then go for it! |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jun 2 2009, 05:29 PM Post #17 |
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I know you weren't. I'm just stating my opinions about his project, while acknoledging your satements about how speculative biology projects are created rather than evolved. But I think the more unrecognizable an alien being is, the better. But even so, they still must follow universal biological laws, like senses being in the front, or the streamlined swimming shape fish, dolphins, and ichthyosaurs take on. |
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| ATEK Azul | Jun 2 2009, 06:11 PM Post #18 |
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Transhuman
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How about a mouth that is developed from the front fins for the bottom and the bones under the eye for the top? Then instead of having intestine and the tubing connecting the mouth with the stomach, the muoth empties into the stomach and the digestive tract is made from stomach after stomach each ment to dijest slightly differently then the last? |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Ànraich | Jun 2 2009, 08:19 PM Post #19 |
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L'évolution Spéculative est moi
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I hate how people assume life requires oxygen, water, and sunlight to exist. First off all, this is absurd. We have organisms on Earth that exist without sunlight, and to lots of bacteria oxygen is poisonous! And we don't necessarily know that life needs water specifically. Surely it will require some form of liquid, but I'm sure other things can be used in place of water. What about places like Titan where the air is filled with methane and nitrogen and a liquid methane solution forms lakes and possibly oceans all around? When our probe landed there it landed in a goo; things like goo don't naturally form most of the time. It could have landed on some kind of giant organism for all we know! I think it would be wise to send a better probe to Titan and see what's going on there. Secondly the only reason sunlight is important to us is because it was a plentiful source of energy to our ancestor organisms. There are places on the ocean floor where organisms huddle around dim volcanic vents; living on the heat and chemicals that are released from it. Sunlight and oxygen would kill them. There are caves filled with myriads of lifeforms that have never even seen light, let alone sunlight. From what we can tell based on our observations of life on Earth is that for life to develop it needs: 1. A structure to store genetic information 2. A liquid base 3. A gaseous base 4. Some form of energy (whether it be heat, light, chemicals, etc) It does not specifically have to be DNA, water, oxygen, and sunlight. That's just what developed here on Earth, as the resources for all of that were plentiful. |
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We should all aspire to die surrounded by our dearest friends. Just like Julius Caesar. "The Lord Universe said: 'The same fate I have given to all things from stones to stars, that one day they shall become naught but memories aloft upon the winds of time. From dust all was born, and to dust all shall return.' He then looked upon His greatest creation, life, and pitied them, for unlike stars and stones they would soon learn of this fate and despair in the futility of their own existence. And so the Lord Universe decided to give life two gifts to save them from this despair. The first of these gifts was the soul, that life might more readily accept their fate, and the second was fear, that they might in time learn to avoid it altogether." - Excerpt from a Chanagwan creation myth, Legends and Folklore of the Planet Ghar, collected and published by Yieju Bai'an, explorer from the Celestial Commonwealth of Qonming Tree That Owns Itself
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| Empyreon | Jun 3 2009, 04:06 PM Post #20 |
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Are you plausible?
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Ah, well then it looks like I double-confused myself yet again. ![]()
For my own benefit, and in general for the sake of argument, why do senses have to be in front? Is a 360 degree input out of the question? Edited by Empyreon, Jun 3 2009, 04:07 PM.
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jun 3 2009, 04:47 PM Post #21 |
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Because the most anterior part of a creature meets the environment first. It would be very beneficial to have the senses there, because they scan the environment with whatever senses they have, like sight for example. For vertebrates and other animals, the brain is located anteriorly, and data gathered by the sense organs (eyes, ears, chemoreceptors, et cetera) get signaled to the brain much faster. Having an eye on your rear end is very impractical and problematic, as the signal takes a bit longer to reach the brain, and it isn't on an area which meets the environment first. |
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| Empyreon | Jun 3 2009, 05:06 PM Post #22 |
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Are you plausible?
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That makes sense, but what if a creature is radially symmetrical? Is the best spot then the top of the creature or some 'equatorial' arrangement? While we're on the subject, (and you can tell me if this belongs in my own thread), I'm working on the internal anatomy of certain creatures, and according to their design their eyes (and presumably some other sense organs as well) are extended in a robust (but in some cases quite long) sensory stalk, but there is no space in there for any decent sized brain. Is this evolutionarily 'unfit' or is 'cephalization' just another application of terran anatomical trends on alien life? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jun 3 2009, 05:31 PM Post #23 |
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In those statements I was speaking of bilaterally-symmetrical creatures. For a radially-symmetrical creature, the senses could be mounted on the top or radially arranged. Actually, I thought of a creature who had just senses on a single head too. I need to see a drawing of your creature. But many creatures have small brains anyway; you don't necessarily need a big brain to survive. A solution to the brain problem would be to thicken the stalk a bit to provide room for a brain, or to have a processing ganglion at the stalk that then sends the signal to the brain at the base of the stalk. And also, I think the way I named this thread is exaggerative. The point I am trying to convey here is that life will not be the same as on Earth. What can I rename this thread to? Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Jun 4 2009, 04:33 PM.
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| Empyreon | Jun 3 2009, 05:40 PM Post #24 |
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I actually thought the name was appropriate, as it challenges us to think creatively while understanding that there are certain aspects that would likely be common in all life. I've uploaded images of the specific creature (Nereid dragon) in my Nereus thread. The pictures are a little small, but I hope you can get the idea. Here's a link: http://spec-evolution.sytes.net/single/?p=283057&t=1713511 Personally, I like the idea of a specialized processing ganglion in the sensory stalk more than trying to cram the whole brain into it. |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jun 12 2009, 02:24 PM Post #25 |
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Reading again, I think his argument is that people pay little attention to the starts of evolution (id est, the arising of multicelluar organisms and bauplan evolution). Honestly, I firmly believe Nemo knows what he is doing here. While I agree that people should pay more attention to the starts of evolution, that doesn't mean you are not allowed to use your imagination and think of other ways life could evolve. Combining science and imagination makes a totally new scientific idea. Nothing on this planet says that life on other planets can not diverge into strange lifeforms. As an aside, I feel that Nemo needs to stand up for his own creations a little bit more, other than the common "o em gee they haz pen0rs coming out of their chests!"-type comments he recieves, because we the fans can't be the only ones doing so, as our wits do not equal his. Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Jul 13 2009, 03:11 PM.
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| ATEK Azul | Jul 13 2009, 03:00 PM Post #26 |
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Hey I thought I would post these links since temselves and the comments for them are inspiring and very closely related to this in my opinion. http://bensen-daniel.deviantart.com/journal/23488328/ http://thomastapir.deviantart.com/art/Alternative-Biochemistries-WIP-129132049 |
| I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's! | |
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| Empyreon | Jul 13 2009, 03:42 PM Post #27 |
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Are you plausible?
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I'm afraid I don't understand. Stand up for what? Is he being threatened somehow, or are you talking about him shooing away the people who disagree with him? |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jul 13 2009, 08:09 PM Post #28 |
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It's self exclamatory really. If you look at the comments of his work "The Best of Snaiad" (which got daily deviation), you'd honestly know what I mean. You see people thinking that the second-head tongues are penises. He spent so much energy correcting those people. I think he should do the same with people who should open their minds a bit. |
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| Empyreon | Jul 13 2009, 10:15 PM Post #29 |
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Are you plausible?
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I see. Well, he probably grew tired of correcting such people that he decided to stop paying attention to comments. Some people are always going to be closed-minded, despite the most thorough explanation. That's part of the reason I only post my work in specific places, where I feel that it will be appreciated. |
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Take a look at my exobiology subforum of the planet Nereus! COM Contributions food for thought
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| Giant Blue Anteater | Jul 13 2009, 11:04 PM Post #30 |
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A person who misinterprets a part of a strange organism is one thing, but someone who's mind is so closed that not even a crowbar can open it is another (like in this case maybe). If you actually follow his work and his moves in-depth, you will see that he is extremely busy, too busy to respond sometimes. It is not that he is tired of responding to comments, it's that he is too busy to. Besides, he has is fans (like us) that will correct them anyway, and the fact that just for that one day when his "The Best of Snaiad" work got Daily Deviation, he had to keep telling the ignorant masses that those things are NOT penises. But there is still lots of people who like his work on deviantART anyway. |
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