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creative evolution; its a book i am reading
Topic Started: Feb 1 2009, 02:42 PM (1,598 Views)
Paralith
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Here is an excerpt from the book: "Every biologist must be painfully aware that biology is an incomplete science. It needs new organizing principles, ones that are nonphysical and nonmaterial, to explain three perennial mysteries: the difference between life and nonlife, the development of an embryo into an adult biological form, and, as emphasized here and by Eldredge and Gould, the discontinuous epochs of evolution. Unfortunately, it is not politically correct for biologist to admit these shortcomings in public."

This is a complete twisting of biological knowledge. These things are not mysteries. We know the difference between life and non-life, we know how an embryo becomes an adult, and the "discontinuous epochs" is an appeal to the lack of transitional fossils argument, which is completely bunk. The fossil record is incomplete - the likelihood that any given animal becomes fossilized is extremely small, and dependent on a lot of variables. It is by its very nature an incomplete sampling. That does not mean there is a problem with evolution. And transitional forms have continuously been found, but the search for them is never ending. You found transitional species D between species A and F. Well, now you can say, well what about species C and E? It's as though some people won't be satisfied until we have an individual from each generation all throughout the past, and that's just not going to happen. Eldredge and Gould did not address this is a mystery, they were using these long periods of apparent environmental stasis to propose the theory of puncuated equilibrium.

I'm sorry Aztek, this man clearly does not have a deep understanding of evolution and biology if he thinks these are mysteries. That's the problem when a mystic and a physicist tries to write about evolution.
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lamna
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Ah Paralith, you always seem to know when you are needed.

Definably won't bother with this book unless the Daily Mail goes out of print and I need some other kindling.
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Paralith
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lamna
Feb 3 2009, 01:31 PM
Ah Paralith, you always seem to know when you are needed.
I come by and lurk fairly often. I just don't have time to really get involved in any of the spec projects.
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lamna
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I have the time, but no the knowledge, artistic or literary skill to help with the projects.
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ATEK Azul
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see that is true but you have too read most of the book inorder too remotely understand him. and he has an adition too the whole fossil gaps thing he has combine many theorys into a fast tempo of evolution which is why there are gaps, they are there becouse his version of evolution can work in a few generations there for there is no missing links becouse most of the built up mutations manifest within a few gens. another thing is that he beleaves that there is two layers of reality the nonlocal nonmaterial existence of conciusness and possibility waves, and then the material world which is formed of observed collapsed possibility waves in the form of matter and life. this guy thinks that evolution is in stages going from surtain stages of mental meaning in physical representation, while also being an evolution of the capasity for matter to express life.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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lamna
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Hmm, interesting. But I would rather read about a 6' 2"-tall female, Eurasian interstellar captain of the Royal Manticoran Navy fighting a large interstellar war with her hexapedal celery obsessed telepathic cat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorverse

I wonder why this chap does not write a paper, rather than a novel and win a Nobel prize.
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Paralith
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ATEK Azul
Feb 3 2009, 05:02 PM
see that is true but you have too read most of the book inorder too remotely understand him.
I'm sorry, but I don't want to understand someone who has the gall to say the transformation of an embryo to an adult is a "mystery." That right there betrays a lack of knowledge at best and a complete misconception at worst.
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ATEK Azul
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what he means by the embryo thing is that we do not know how 1 type of cell with 1 thing of dna can diversify during developement into so many different cells and functions.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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ChumZar
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Hey I believe in magic and spirits and reincarnation and shamanism as unexplained science. I wasn't demoting it from my comment, just remembering the past. :)
"Hard-wired to conceive so much we had to stow it. Even needs have needs; tiny giants made of tinier giants. Don't wear eyelids so we don't miss the last laugh of this show."
-Modest Mouse
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lamna
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Well if he does not know how one set of DNA can make lots of different cells he needs to go to collage. Or read wikipedia.
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Paralith
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ATEK Azul
Feb 3 2009, 08:32 PM
what he means by the embryo thing is that we do not know how 1 type of cell with 1 thing of dna can diversify during developement into so many different cells and functions.
Even further evidence of this man's lack of knowledge. As lamna says, finding information on this process is not difficult. It is done by differential expression of various genes at specific times and at specific dosages. Different cell types express different subsets of the genome according to their function. This is an extremely well known phenomenon.

From the wikipedia article on cellular differentiation: "In developmental biology, cellular differentiation is the process by which a less specialized cell becomes a more specialized cell type. Differentiation occurs numerous times during the development of a multicellular organism as the organism changes from a single zygote to a complex system of tissues and cell types. Differentiation is a common process in adults as well: adult stem cells divide and create fully-differentiated daughter cells during tissue repair and during normal cell turnover. Differentiation dramatically changes a cell's size, shape, membrane potential, metabolic activity, and responsiveness to signals. These changes are largely due to highly-controlled modifications in gene expression. With a few exceptions, cellular differentiation almost never involves a change in the DNA sequence itself. Thus, different cells can have very different physical characteristics despite having the same genome."
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lamna
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If I were you would stop wasting my time with this book. Try flanimals instead.
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34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
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Carlos
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Now I surely do have reasons to not even touch that book
Lemuria:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/topic/5724950/

Terra Alternativa:
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Conceptual_Evolution/forum/460637/

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ATEK Azul
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the reason he says they are miss understood is that the process is known but it is not explained plus he is not satisfied with the answeres given for alot of things becouse they are full of loop holes and all sorts of other things it is a interesting and good book i highly suggest it. it might just be non sense too you guys though.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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lamna
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No we know very well how this happens, as paralith said. The book does not just sound like nonsense, it is nonsense. Do something useful and constructive rather than reading new age/creationist crap. Like playing in the snow.
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34 MYH, 4 tonne dinosaur.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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