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Deriving a Central Arm
Topic Started: Jan 31 2009, 07:31 AM (1,271 Views)
StrandedAlien
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I have a question: How do you design a creature with a central arm? Like Nemo Ramjet's example here, a "Monkey" of Pazattan. Monkey of Pazattan

I am working on a redesign of one of my creatures, which has such a central arm, which has now become necessary, no longer just interesting. (It has a long neck with a beak, and uses its beak and its central arm as its two manipulators. We have a right hand and a left hand, they would have an upper beak and a lower hand/talon.)

Any feedback, much appreciated!
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Toad of Spades
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Maybe it could have started out with four arms and one of the pairs gets closer to the center of the body. Then the arms fuse together and end up resembling the front leg of the gyrosprinter from Darwin IV (two separate upper arms and fused lower arm.)Posted Image
Edited by Toad of Spades, Jan 31 2009, 12:52 PM.
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StrandedAlien
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Whoa! I can't believe I forgot about the Gyrosprinter! Thank you for posting the picture. I can see it now, and it makes sense. Hopefully, I can post my redesigned critter soon. :)
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lamna
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That still does not explain how that happened to the gyrosprinter. Looks a unlikely thing to evolve.

And I was wondering why the Pazattan ambassador shook my hand for so long, and why he had sweaty palms. Eww.
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Are nipples or genitals necessary, lamna?
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Viergacht
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For something like the "monkey", it could have been a centrally located gripper like that on a walking catfish.
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zypher
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mabey it began as a second head like those on snaiad animals, then thehere was a mutation in one generation in which the feeding head went from the second to the first... so that the second head could evolve into a primitive jaw like grasper of sorts.

you could go anywhere from there.
because there are an infinite number of alternate realities, withen them an infinite ammount of infinite things are possible... infinitly.

two samples of my artwork
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img016-1.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img018.jpg

<embed width="384" height="206" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" src="http://www.spore.com/flash/csa_widget.swf?userid=2263016807&username=zaraquex&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spore.com%2Fview%2Fuser-thumbnail" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="latest-creatures" /></embed>
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Giant Blue Anteater
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Nemo Ramjet told me that the "monkey" of Pazattan was descended from some wierd animal that resembled a cross between a jumping spider and a springtail. And seeing how the middle arm is a genital organ, it seems to have derived from some jointed genital from the undersides of the Pazattanian's ancestors.

Now, a middle limb, if it were to derive from something like a strange sea cucumber-like animal, then the many tube feet would've fused into a single, frontal middle limb, while two other limbs form from tube feet. This animal would be a tripod, bearing some resemblance to the prismalope from Barlowe's Darwin IV. Given that these tripods could evolve bipedal forms, some may adapt the middle limb, lose it, or even as a grasper.

Now, using a fish-like ancestor, a fins could radially evolve near the head, if the animal is torpedo-shaped with four fin webbings. The extremities evolving from each of the four tail fin webbings may be downward-facing cusps, and propelling the animal foreward. If they evolve land forms, the lateral fins could evolve as legs, while the ventral, medial fin could, like the sea cucumberoid derivative, a third leg, while the dorsal fin could be a sail for warming up or attracting mates. They could free the third limb from the ground some way or another, and one of the adaptations could be a grasper.

However, with only one arm, a sapient species evolving from both of these lineages could have limited technology at the beginning, after all, you cannot do much with one arm, can you? If the single central arm were to splt into two 'hands', then I think things could be a little promising.
Edited by Giant Blue Anteater, Feb 2 2009, 08:16 PM.
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StrandedAlien
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Giant Blue Anteater
Feb 2 2009, 08:10 PM
Nemo Ramjet told me that the "monkey" of Pazattan was descended from some wierd animal that resembled a cross between a jumping spider and a springtail. And seeing how the middle arm is a genital organ, it seems to have derived from some jointed genital from the undersides of the Pazattanian's ancestors.

Now, a middle limb, if it were to derive from something like a strange sea cucumber-like animal, then the many tube feet would've fused into a single, frontal middle limb, while two other limbs form from tube feet. This animal would be a tripod, bearing some resemblance to the prismalope from Barlowe's Darwin IV. Given that these tripods could evolve bipedal forms, some may adapt the middle limb, lose it, or even as a grasper.

Now, using a fish-like ancestor, a fins could radially evolve near the head, if the animal is torpedo-shaped with four fin webbings. The extremities evolving from each of the four tail fin webbings may be downward-facing cusps, and propelling the animal foreward. If they evolve land forms, the lateral fins could evolve as legs, while the ventral, medial fin could, like the sea cucumberoid derivative, a third leg, while the dorsal fin could be a sail for warming up or attracting mates. They could free the third limb from the ground some way or another, and one of the adaptations could be a grasper.

However, with only one arm, a sapient species evolving from both of these lineages could have limited technology at the beginning, after all, you cannot do much with one arm, can you? If the single central arm were to splt into two 'hands', then I think things could be a little promising.
Thanks! I recently redesigned the central-arm-bearing species in question (though before I started this thread) and posted it tonight. Here is the link: Redesigned Hliaen I might redesign it further. This hliaen still has one arm, but rather than splitting its central arm into two "hands", it co-opted its beak into a grasping organ, though not quite as dexterous as the hand/talon. I have to give Nemo Ramjet credit for the beak idea, as I borrowed it from his Dinosauroids. :) Thanks Nemo Ramjet!
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zypher
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I like it all accept for the eyse on the shoulders!
because there are an infinite number of alternate realities, withen them an infinite ammount of infinite things are possible... infinitly.

two samples of my artwork
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img016-1.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img018.jpg

<embed width="384" height="206" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" src="http://www.spore.com/flash/csa_widget.swf?userid=2263016807&username=zaraquex&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spore.com%2Fview%2Fuser-thumbnail" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="latest-creatures" /></embed>
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StrandedAlien
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zypher
Feb 3 2009, 05:56 PM
I like it all accept for the eyse on the shoulders!
Thank you. :) The eyes aren't really on the shoulders, though I made it look like it. It's sort of like a head with a verrrrrry short neck and a verrrrrrrry long trunk, tipped with a beaked snout/ false head, which has ears and breathing openings that look like a face, but are not. I like designs that trick the terrestrially-trained eye into seeing, for example, faces where there aren't any.
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ATEK Azul
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intersting concept, i like it alot. the thing is that i would add bigger wings and a wing like use of the hind limbs, plus maybe the middle limb could be more aerodinamic or have a pouch on the chest too resist wind drag. but i like the design and if you make it more alien like with the eyes and stuff would be awsome. also check out thomastapir's gallery on dev art for some intersting wing designs that you might be inspired by for a more alien wing.

all of these are just suggestions and i love the design.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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zypher
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hmmm... the way you have it I don't quite see it...

perhapse draw the head in a different position so I could get a better idea? (nothing fancy, just a quick skecth)
because there are an infinite number of alternate realities, withen them an infinite ammount of infinite things are possible... infinitly.

two samples of my artwork
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img016-1.jpg
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj74/zaraquexon/img018.jpg

<embed width="384" height="206" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" src="http://www.spore.com/flash/csa_widget.swf?userid=2263016807&username=zaraquex&host=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spore.com%2Fview%2Fuser-thumbnail" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage="http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer" scale="showall" name="latest-creatures" /></embed>
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StrandedAlien
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ATEK Azul
Feb 3 2009, 08:05 PM
intersting concept, i like it alot. the thing is that i would add bigger wings and a wing like use of the hind limbs, plus maybe the middle limb could be more aerodinamic or have a pouch on the chest too resist wind drag. but i like the design and if you make it more alien like with the eyes and stuff would be awsome. also check out thomastapir's gallery on dev art for some intersting wing designs that you might be inspired by for a more alien wing.

all of these are just suggestions and i love the design.
Thanks for the suggestion! I've actually been considering using the hind legs as wings! I can see a more aerodynamic central arm as looking more interesting as well. Perhaps I could draw one in flight once I do another redesign. :)
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StrandedAlien
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zypher
Feb 3 2009, 09:17 PM
hmmm... the way you have it I don't quite see it...

perhapse draw the head in a different position so I could get a better idea? (nothing fancy, just a quick skecth)
Sure! I actually meant for it to be hard to discern. (I like messing with the eye), but I'll post a simple diagram soon.
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ATEK Azul
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cool!!!

i am glad you liked the suggestions this animal and its relatives have great potential if you make other types that is.
I am dyslexic, please ignore the typo's!
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