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The Americans; S6 - The Final Season
Topic Started: Mar 29 2018, 08:45 PM (576 Views)
KMInfinity
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I saw a couple comments in the catchall thread and figured we could use a separate thread since this is one of the few shows whose thread went beyond one page.

Overall, really looking forward to the final season. My major flaw as a serious television viewer is that I have to "like" a character to really embrace a show. While I can intellectually admire and recognize a show's quality objectively, I won't actually watch it if I don't have what I call a "viewpoint character." This show proves to be the exception. I don't really like anyone. At times, I like Stan, or Philip, or Oleg, but they each do stuff that makes them Not Viewpoint Characters. Yet I do really like the show.

And the intricacy of the plotting means I am looking forward to bingeing it some day.

I think one of its strengths is how well they balance the pro American-pro Russian slants, such as the dinner scene at Stan's, where Paige plays the righteous college student...but in fact the undercurrents of the discussion are deeper than casual dinner convo really is.

The whole episode (and the season) is driven by glastnost and perestroika...the Summit of 1987, Gorbachev in DC for reals. Philip and Elizabeth are clearly drifting apart, and their views of the direction for Mother Russia will drive a further wedge. Oleg has already hinted that Philip may need to take down Elizabeth at some point - though I am actually rather unclear who is actually directing Elizabeth. Is she following orders, or has she been suborned by a traitorous faction in Russia? or is Philip the one being sucked into a faction's plans? Does it matter? Because it is most certainly going to be Spy VS Spy, and it sure looks like it's gonna end badly for the Jennings.

(FYI - I looked it up. Putin was in East Germany from 1985-1990, burning everything as the wall fell.)

The timejump segment using "Don't Dream It's Over' was perfect... but the time skip of three years leaves some questions. I like that the show expects the viewer to pay attention and connect the dots...but there are some major glitches I need clarified, number one being whether Philip is aware of just how much Paige has been pulled into The Life.... I agree with posters who are saying that it would be much more realistic for Honest American Paige to be groomed for a white collar govt spot in deep cover, not doing field work like Elizabeth...


Elizabeth's stabbing murder of the young naval dude was brutal, and she lied to Paige about the seriousness of hr blown cover (almost) else why did she need to murder the dude?

I wish the show would spend a little more time developing the theme of parents/children from the perspective that Philip for sure and even Elizabeth HAVE to realize their kids will have a much better life being Americans, and what kind of conflicts that would engender. They touch upon the idea but never really explore it. I could see an endgame showdown where Elizabeth has to kill Henry to keep him from busting on his family - he totally would. Or take that pill.

Lots of "deadpool" predictions everywhere....
Edited by KMInfinity, Mar 30 2018, 06:48 PM.
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Krystal
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My thoughts exactly. It's unusual for me to watch a show where I hate most of the characters .

I really hate Elizabeth the most, as duh, she should see how much better her children could be here. I hate that
Paige is so easy to brainwash. But then she was in to religion, which is brainwashed.

I just hope the kids end up ok, and Elizabeth gets her comuppence.
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bilki
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For as much as this show can piss me off, I'll admit that it's often thought-provoking and worthy of discussion.

Loved the use of Peter Gabriel's We Do What We're Told for the scene in which the Strategic Rocket Forces guy meets with Elizabeth. The song being about Stanley Milgram's experiment sent me on a number of inner dialogues about Elizabeth's culpability in these endeavors. Is she just doing as she's told? Certainly not. But she is good a following orders, and I continue to be intrigued by how she remains so committed to the mission. I'm even leaning towards thinking that Philip's route, quitting, was an easier choice to make.

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Elizabeth's stabbing murder of the young naval dude was brutal, and she lied to Paige about the seriousness of hr blown cover (almost) else why did she need to murder the dude?
Is it safe to assume that this was a case of a mother protecting her young? I thought she was just going to beat the shit out of the guy to get the wallet back, so the knife to his neck was a shock. Elizabeth explained that all the info on the ID was false, so why the drastic measures? Pent up frustrations at Philip quitting on her? It seemed one of the intentions of the episode was to show how working alone was wearing on her.

And speaking of Philip quitting, I watched the scene at the end when Philip confronts her several times. She enters and chats him up a bit. He asks what's going on with her, and she starts to take a more defensive stance. But when he mentions how quitting was the best decision, she really turns on him and it's all angry eyes, and how she needed to get some sleep.

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I really hate Elizabeth the most, as duh, she should see how much better her children could be here.
This is one of the many reasons I find her so fascinating. Why doesn't she see it would be better it is for her children here in the US? And if she does see it, how is it that she continues to deny that possibility?

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I hate that Paige is so easy to brainwash.
To her credit, she did struggle with it. She didn't just subscribe to their dogma without a second thought. And, they deceived her by leaving out just about all of the ugliness of it.
Edited by bilki, Mar 30 2018, 11:53 PM.
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blosslover
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To me the Paige part, since it jumped three years, who knows what she saw to change her attitude. That is a very long time to indoctrinate someone.
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bilki
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There's also the moth-to-the-flame aspect. Her mother was teaching her to fight, so on some level she realizes she's entering a dangerous game...and that can be very alluring to a young person. It certainly feels important.
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Krystal
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It's true that show jump 3 years That would make a difference in page being involved. However what I meant as she's easily brainwashed is that she was alredy brainwashed by the church so brainwashing her by her family Was just another step in that kind of personality that is so easily brainwashed. In my opinion religion is brainwashing. She was totally in marisque in the church for a while and was treating the pastor like he was some kind of reincarnation of a deity. Now she's all when with the spy thing.

Interesting enough, I have been reading some things about the show on Google mainly because if you turn your phone on There is an article about the Americans in front of your face. It's either that or it's Prince Harry's wedding, Which I have no interest in, Anymore than I have interests in any celebrity's wedding. So considering the show there is always something about it. Some of the articles have said that people wanted to kill off Paige, And the show runners thought that was pretty mean. I really never wanted to see her killed off but in the end if she were to die because of something Elizabeth did that would be The kind of irony that I wouldn't mind seeing.
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Krystal
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The irony of it all is what seems to be Russia winning after all these years without firing a weapon. Instead helping elect a president who is divisive and hateful, And tearing apart our democracy. Putin must get a good laugh every day.
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Dax
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Elizabeth killing the guard was very extreme... and yeah, seemed unnecessary, and even... like, couldn’t Paige read about his murder now? Shouldn’t that be a reason not to?

Very good premiere.

Martindale gets in the opening credits for the last season..

First Phillip/Oleg scene ever, right?

Phillip looked so happy while line dancing...

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Krystal
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OK so I am hating Elizabeth more and more and her jumping on that guy in the hotel room was just unbelievable. I have never liked Russell in this role. She looks as Russian as Kung Fu pork and she sway too small to do the things they have her doing. If she had stabbed the guy or something maybe I could have believed that but it takes a lot of strength to choke a person and when you're hanging off of them like a bat,
Impossible to get the leverage. Just stupid writing.
I sure hope she gets killed in the end.
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bilki
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Although I'm not a Paige hater, this last episode made me wish that she dies by the end. They seem so determined to tell this story about Paige being incorporated into the spy game but it feels like they're showing us that it's not a good idea. Is this a story about the ultimate sacrifice Elizabeth will make to extend her own blind faith in the cause to her daughter? I can see why Paige would get sucked into this life but I started wondering why it's a necessary story for the end game. Maybe it was just my mood.

I'm not rooting for Elizabeth's death but it would be amusing if she meets her end in a situation in which Paige breaking protocol would have saved her life. That would likely be a horrible burden for Paige to live with, though.
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KMInfinity
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bilki
Apr 13 2018, 06:26 PM
Is this a story about the ultimate sacrifice Elizabeth will make to extend her own blind faith in the cause to her daughter? I can see why Paige would get sucked into this life but I started wondering why it's a necessary story for the end game. Maybe it was just my mood.
Must be my mood too. Paige sucks a lot of time that I think could be better spent on other stories, even stories that are non existent right now. I am assuming she will play into some tragic endgame, and likely result in a "Sophie's Choice" type story, AND feed into the estrangement with Philip and Elizabeth, and even so, I'd rather see some other conflict or developments.
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Dax
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6.6 was great, but the previews for 7... wow. Big.

Four left.
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bilki
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Beeman's Thanksgiving toast made me laugh. He was so proud of himself but the Russians thought we wanted to harm them, too.

All the time we got to spend with Henry made me wonder how the Paige story would be playing out if he'd been the first born.

It's hard to put much faith in those previews for episode 7 when they could have edited it all together to make it look like something big will happen....and then it doesn't. This show loves to do that. I'm not even convinced Philip or Elizabeth will die before the end.
Edited by bilki, May 8 2018, 07:53 PM.
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Dax
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I think Elizabeth will die.
Phillip will be captured.
Claudia might get Paige to Russia.
Poor Henry is just gonna be heartbroken.
I hope Stan and Oleg don’t die.
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bilki
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I'd like to see Elizabeth somehow make her way back to Russia. She's a fascinating example of self-preservation.
I could see Philip defecting at the last second.
Oleg's a dead man.
I wouldn't mind if Paige dies but I don't think they'll go there.
Henry will be heartbroken only if he doesn't get to go to his private school for his senior year.
I wish Stan would die but I doubt I'll get that satisfaction.
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Krystal
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I quit the show. It annoys me too much.
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KMInfinity
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Both 7.6 and 7.7 were amazing.

Sorry you can't stick with it Krystal. It really does have some annoying characters and plot elements, but overall the writing and acting are terrific. I really admire the way they are willing to commit to a scene with mostly emotions and facial expressions to tell the story. That scene in the garage with the dead illegal's body - just wow/ And the followups.

And that scene where Philip goes to Paige's dorm to test her. :0

Bilki I think I agree. Elizabeth will live, and almost everyone ELSE will die (Philip, Paige, and Stan :'-( ), Henry will disown her and she will return to Russia. With regrets? Or with her blind loyalty intact?

I really do not like that she is too blind to the flaws of Mother Russia. Philip at least is struggling with doubts. I liked that he refused to help trap Kimmie(?).
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bilki
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KMI, have you found any value in Paige's story beyond her being a plot device for some tragic endgame scenario? I don't know how else they could have told her story but it feels like they've compromised the character by making her wholly committed to The Cause during the time jump.

There were a few outspoken voices on one forum that made me think people mostly disliked Stan's A-HA! moment but they seemed to be more accepting of it on Sepinwall's site. I figured there were layers of denial at play for so long that an odd occurrence reawakening his suspicions wasn't out of the question.

All of the people rooting for Elizabeth's death make me fear I'll be wrong about her surviving but she has the determination to find her way out of this mess. And, I would appreciate the irony of her having the cyanide and not having to use it.

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I really do not like that she is too blind to the flaws of Mother Russia. Philip at least is struggling with doubts.
It's all the more interesting if you factor in that Elizabeth's blind faith may be the reason she's been able to survive. It seems like Philip's doubts are the more ideal way to go but it looks like the show is saying it hasn't done them any favors.
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Dax
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I have been able to buy in to Paige’s malleability well enough, given how suddenly devoted to the church she was (and then wasn’t, after awhile).

I know Krystal’s always had issues with the show (and, inexplicably to me, to Keri Russell as Elizabeth), but I still think ‘how could you quit just a few hours from the end?’...

I’m good with how they gave us Stan catching a clue. Much suspense as he’s going through the house...

Three more.
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KMInfinity
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Bilki, I do feel that Paige's story is a little too much of a plot device. But on the other hand, I am glad we have NOT had to spend time with her gradual indoctrination/"woken status" at the expense of other characters. This tapestry is pretty big and there are a lot of people I'd like to have a "check-in" with, or more depth, or more story...such as Martha or Oleg or Stan's new SO. I do think the transition could have been handled better - for example, could Margo Martindale's character and Paige have had better interactions? And in previous seasons, there could have been just a few scenes of Elizabeth NOT being so "suburban mom" with the kids, and instead revealing a relationship with them that was distant, conditional, etc that would set up why Paige would be so eager for her approval. As it stands, it seems more likely Paige would be second guessing Elizabeth's choices and actions, pushing her parents to re-evaluate their commitment to the cause.

I think, if anything, Stan's suspicions are long overdue. Given past clues, and the strange hours the Jennings must have kept.. Given the number of times Paige and Henry were left alone you would think at least a couple crises would have resulted in Stan's involvement with them as a neighbor.

I agree, Elizabeth's driven faith does allow her a singular focus that is likely very favorable for survival. But that's why we should have seen how that kind of driven focus would have resulted in her kids being alienated and unhappy, instead of the generally whitebread suburban family picture we have.

****

Meanwhile, my class is currently studying the cold war, and one of my students volunteered his uncle to come speak to our class about his experiences during the cold war as an embedded illegal in a Soviet sub. Liam says his uncle trained for 15 years before going "undercover." Not sure how much he can divulge, but this is pretty cool!
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Krystal
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I am still recording the show but won't watch unless I read that Elizabeth and or Paige are killed or go to prison. So I will read spoilers.
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KMInfinity
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Are they gonna "redeem" Elizabeth in the last few episodes? There's been a ton of fan commentary about her character between seasons, but I always thought the show had its own vision and was not one of those shows that react and write to the fan feedback.

First, she almost doesn't destroy the painting. Then she does.

Next she does not kill the intern who works for... the senator(?) even though he is clearly a danger and might talk.

Then she refuses to kill Nestorenko, and starts sounding a lot like Philip, and challenges Margo.

And THEN she opens up with Philip...

So at this late date they are going to try to explain the internal conflicts in Russia between the Party and the military? That seems rather ambitious. But I approve.

it THAT case, i do see Elizabeth dying - because she finally answers to her conscience. And thereby saves Paige and Philip and Gorbachev and Stan...

Okay I am a hopeless romantic when it comes to self-sacrifice. :D

Krystal, it may be a little too "left field" for you. :P
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bilki
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KMInfinity
May 19 2018, 08:45 AM
and challenges Margo.

Who's Margo? :D


It was odd to me that Claudia told Elizabeth the whole sordid story about Nesterenko. I've been stewing over it for a couple days. If it was obvious that Claudia was setting up Elizabeth to be eliminated by the KGB, then I've been taking my time at accepting it. Maybe that makes me like Stan Beeman, lol. I say this because I've seen some people saying Claudia's revelation was the tipping point for Elizabeth's transformation, but I couldn't figure out why Claudia would tell her to begin with. And this all connects to how I feel about Elizabeth getting a redemption arc, which I'm not very happy about.

I suppose if they're going to have her indulge her conscience, which leads to her death, then my point about her ruthlessness being a necessary part of her survival will be proven. It's just that I really didn't want her to die. If she dies by the hand of the KGB, it won't be as frustrating as Beeman having some Great American Hero moment.
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Dax
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Burning the painting was, like, harder on the eyes and conscience than chopping up Marilyn in the parking garage.

I'm glad it was made clear that Claudia knew all the particulars of 'Mexico' and Elizabeth's secret mission, because at various points, it sure SEEMED like she did, though they had SAID that she didn't...

I'm yelling at Philip at the beginning 'no, don't tell her'... but it sorta kinda seemed to work out okay, by the end of the hour...
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bilki
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"Can you get that into your thick head?" may be my favorite line of the series. And, of course, Beeman sits there with that dumb look on his face.

With the way they ended EP9, I felt like we might get more of a Sopranos-type ending than I was expecting.
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Krystal
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Bilki, if that's the case, I will really celebrate not watching!
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bilki
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I don't how long the last episode will be but it looks like it will be spent with Philip, Elizabeth and Paige trying to escape the grips of the FBI, and likely the KGB. Unless they all end up dead, I figured we'll be expected to use our imagination on what happens to them if they're able to ride off into the sunset.

Maybe Sopranos-like wasn't the best comparison, but it just didn't look they'd have time to wrap everything up neatly. Now that I've said it, I'll probably be totally wrong.
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KMInfinity
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Bilki
 
...just didn't look they'd have time to wrap everything up neatly.


I think Elizabeth's redemption (if indeed it is a redemption...maybe better to call it Elizabeth's re-evaluation of her mission, her family, her loyalties) isn't quite earned. The problem, imo, is inherent in the the style and pacing of the show, which I love, but which carries within it its "fatal flaw." To spend the time on small moments and character moments and other intricately developed story arcs means the big plot thrusts are coming too fast for the style and pacing originally established.

I totally get that the three year jump plus Elizabeth's experiences this season are supposed to lead to her decisions to oppose The Centre. And I know, from outside reading and study that of course there are divisions within any country, and in the USSR there was a lot of internal conflict between the military/hardliners and the Party, and in essence, from Elizabeth's POV she is STILL loyal - to the idealism of the Party.

We just didn't get to see that play out, and it looks like we aren't going to see any real, objective exploration of both U.S. and Soviet brinksmanship and ideology, which I wanted to see. I dunno, maybe we will get a couple scenes - Henry arguing with Elizabeth about why he would never go Soviet, and Paige repenting of her role - those would be cool. Some self awareness from Stan, and an understanding that maybe Oleg was right - that also could help.

I actually don't care who lives or dies, except to see how those deaths affect the characters. I hope any deaths aren't "punishing" character choices, because that's sidestepping the morally ambiguous bigger picture that has been poorly focused, unfortunately.
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bilki
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KMInfinity
May 26 2018, 08:47 AM
I totally get that the three year jump plus Elizabeth's experiences this season are supposed to lead to her decisions to oppose The Centre.
Have they been clear about why she's opposing the Centre, and it's just going over my head? Is it a straw-that-broke-the-camel's-back thing? Claudia says that maybe Elizabeth never knew what she was fighting for, and that seems to make more sense than Elizabeth suddenly turning on the Centre and aligning with the pro-Gorbechev faction. It all feels more like someone having a tantrum than some kind of awakening.
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KMInfinity
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I agree, but I THINK they think they have provided enough clues and story to support the idea that Elizabeth is realizing that blind obedience to the Center is not the same as loyalty to her country.

I think they have not, especially given that most probably do not know much about internal Soviet politics to even consider this, me included.
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