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Westworld; Season 1
Topic Started: Oct 24 2016, 11:54 PM (1,031 Views)
Krystal
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Seems like enough of us are watching it to have its own topic. I'm loving the show and it really makes me think to the point where I'm not quite sure where it's going but it's a very enjoyable ride. Dolores and the thaddie Newton characters appear to be having memories and self realization. Bernard lowe, I don't know if you would call him up programmer but anyhow he seems to want the post to have more self actualization and I can't quite figure out what dr. Ford the Anthony Hopkins character is all about. Is he in sync withlowe to actually create sentinent beings here? The female manager and the board don't appear to be on this particular path or a warrant the hosts to have any kind of sense of self or memory. This show brings to mind a lot of the questions that have been asked by other shows about artificial intelligence only if makes it even more real and thought-provoking because the hosts are very likeable. At least a number of them are. The other thing I can't figure is exactly what did Harris is trying to accomplish. He is definitely a guest but he seems to have been there for an extended. Of time and has some goal that none of the other guests have. I also wondered what would happen if a guest fell deeply in love with one of the host characters and wanted to take them into the real world so to speak. Now that could be some kind of big issue.
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Krystal
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That is the ed Harris, character, he is a guest seems to have some additional purpose or goal. Then there's the underlying question did Hopkins and his former partner want to play God by making this world?
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bilki
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It's funny to me that I happened upon a review of The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind several days after it was referenced in Episode 3 of the show. They have the book at a branch of my local library but it's at an inconvenient location.

I'm still leaning towards The Man in Black playing a part in the Hosts accessing their past memories, although it certainly looks like it has more to do with Bernard and his conversations with Dolores.

Evan Rachel Wood is so good! And, James Marsden has been better than I expected.
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tgir
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I think I have developed a relationship to the show that some of the guests have with the hosts, a kind of detached engagement. I find that I am interested--intrigued, even, but with a kind of detachment that I don't normally experience. Back in thd good ole GL days, those characters were real (kinda) to me and I was emotionally invested in what happened to Reva and thd rest. With Westworld, it's more.. Well, I can't say intellectual but not the same level of emotional engagement. I feel protective towards Delores and the Newton character and appalled not only by the cruelty of individual guests but of the entire set up. The hosts feel the pain and horror of the rapes, murders, etc. the guests are safe from any actual consequences. It's an appalling set up, to me. More than callous: horrific. And yet I'm completely aware that Delores's father and mother aren't really killed because they weren't really alive. She will forget all about the vicious attacks, experience the joys of a new day--and then the horror again. It's fascinating to me that she paints (not terribly well), that she creates art, even if it is only rudimentary.
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Krystal
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There are numerous well-known scientists including Stephen Hawking who thinks artificial intelligence will actually in humanity within several hundred years. Looking at this election I don't think that's a terribly bad. In any case it seems as if we create things that can feel Joy and Pain then they are as human as we are because I am not a religious person who believes in some kind of deities having created humankind. So to me the show is extremely thought-provoking because exactly when do these Androids become human or so human that they can be exchanged for humans. The original Westworld movie certainly did not have all these nuances. The movie Blade Runner did and it was one of my all-time favorites. In any case I am rather attached to the hosts and I hope they get inventions again some of the more violent guests. I'm not sure what the man in Black exactly is but he is a great mystery and I love ed Harris
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Krystal
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I also cared about the GL characters but don't forget that show was on for so many years. My grandmother and mother both watch the show in fact both my grandmothers watched it. So the characters were with me for a long long time. And even though I didn't watch it when I was in college or dental school my mother would fill me in every week as to what was happening. Because of course there were no VCRs or anything like that.
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Dax
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So there was a '30 years of CBS daytime being #1' edition of 'The Talk' a few weeks ago that Mom was saving for me to see, and I finally got to it the other night... From ATWT - Martha Byrne, Elizabeth Hubbard, Colleen Zenk, and Ellen Dolan... from GL, Grant Aleksander, Beth Chamberlin, Robert Newman, and Kim Zimmer... rushed - everybody only gets one kinda lame question each, but it was good to see 'our old friends'... Newman does not age. Aleksander looks a little older, but he looks good. Byrne still super-lovely, I've missed her...
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bilki
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Is the way the Guests dehumanize the Hosts at the Westworld park the same as the way we dehumanize each other? Sure, the Hosts aren't what we would consider to be an actual human being but I wonder if the internal process of dehumanization is much the same. I was reading an article about the psychology of hate and it got my mind spinning.
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Krystal
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I think we do dehumanize others that's what racism this all about that one race is less human than another. Like I said the show is very thought-provoking on many levels
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tgir
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I agree that we dehumanize other people. In the case of Westworld, the Hosts are not human so they cannot be dehumanized. Instead, Guests, or humans, feel and indeed are made free to act on whatever impulses they choose because their victims are not human and are not even truly alive.

I do see huge parallels: in our real world, we do tend to dehumanize other people in order to justify or simply allow whatever behavior we choose.
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tgir
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So, I've noticed the following: Of the fair bit of nudity on WestWorld, so far it's only been female characters (including both human and hosts) who are shown with...their bathing suit parts displayed---and last episode: one male black host, although largely if not completely screened. We still saw male genitalia. I'm being a bit delicate here as I don't want to offend anyone or violate board rules by naming parts. We see both male and female characters nude from the back, but only female characters full on frontal and while the general public still seems to be mortally offended if a woman breastfeeds in public, we see female breasts frequently. So far, the only characters being raped are female. The only characters who are explicitly expected to provide sexual services to Guests are female.

Why exactly do you think that is? Male characters dominate as do white characters. Why do we not see more full frontal naked men, especially full frontal naked white men?
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Krystal
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I didn't know we have rules about naming parts. In any case women get raped more than men so maybe that's just being realistic as to what happened. I am okay with male or female nudity
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tgir
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I don't have a problem with nudity. The gender and racial disparity is a different question.

I see how rape as an 'amusement' fits in with the story I feel the show is trying to tell. But I am really not happy with the extent to which tape is represented as being such a .. prominent feature of female lives--regrettable but almost inescapable. I don't agree that it is inevitable.
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bilki
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It would have been a big plus if they'd have given us at least one female guest who was there on her own accord. That would have given them the opportunity to show how men can be objectified at the park. Perhaps that's something they'll explore in the future.

The cynic in me says the prominence of female genetalia and white males probably has more to do with what Hollywood believes is more commercially appealing than the show trying to be realistic.

This show has been eye-opening into how desensitized to violence on television I've become. Unless it's an usually gruesome scene or the death of a much loved character, I feel like my mind just glosses over most of the violence I see. But the Hosts in Westworld are constantly being violated in one way or another, and these are the kind of memories that they will be awakening to...which makes the violence here seem important, all of the sudden.
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tgir
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Bilki, Yes, exactly! to everything you wrote! Until last episode when we got a glimpse of (black) male genitalia, I thought it was just sexism. Now, think there's a bit of another ism going on, as well. I think it's all extremely unconscious but I think it's there.

And yes, Dolores's repeated rapes are exactly all about how horribly desensitized we/society are about sexual violence and how it's never desensitized for the victim. The violence is just callous and because we don't have the same connection and do not see the victims in the same light as we do Delores, it is less horrific. Which also says something about us, I think.
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Krystal
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Good points. Have there been any female guests that we know of? I think it's sad that men want to come in and rape anything or anybody whether they are human or not. And shoot them and be violent to them. It would be nice if guests could shoot one another. I often thought that a good thing to do with violent rapists and murderers would be to put them on an island all together by themselves and let them do whatever to one another.

I have not seen the most recent one I will watch it tonight and keep my eye out for the male genitalia or any other genitalia for that matter.

Regarding the sensitivity or the lack of it when you have a presidential candidate that is such a pig and feels he can do anything to any woman because he is a so-called star, well that thing says a lot about that culture. And the fact that every woman in the United States is not rebelling against this pig says something about our culture as well
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bilki
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Hopefully, the show will find a thoughtful way to address all of the violence. I appreciate that it's already enlightened me to how desensitized I've become to it.

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Have there been any female guests that we know of?
There was a wife in one of the earlier episodes but it seemed like she was there because her husband brought her along.


I thought Sunday's episode felt a bit clunky. Like something wasn't adding up. There's a big theory that may or may not explain that. I did get a chuckle out of the critics who called the orgy scene tame for modern audiences.
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Krystal
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Will Sons of Anarchy got over the top violent for me. Especially when good characters who really were not slime bags were getting killed.

On the other hand Breaking Bad didn't never bother me. Most of the people killed there were lo life drug dealers. That being said I still watch Criminal Intent which can be as gruesome as anything.
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tgir
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bilki
Nov 1 2016, 06:18 PM
Hopefully, the show will find a thoughtful way to address all of the violence. I appreciate that it's already enlightened me to how desensitized I've become to it.

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Have there been any female guests that we know of?
There was a wife in one of the earlier episodes but it seemed like she was there because her husband brought her along.


I thought Sunday's episode felt a bit clunky. Like something wasn't adding up. There's a big theory that may or may not explain that. I did get a chuckle out of the critics who called the orgy scene tame for modern audiences.
There was a female guest who was taken upstairs by one of the prostitutes...We've seen a couple of family groups: husband, wife, child or children. I remember one who saw Delores painting a scene at the river, of horses and one of the horses coming to be stroked by one of the children...

We see some women guests occasionally but they don't actually have any role aside from filler. The only hosts we see who are female, aside from filler (and those are generally prostitutes. Or victims) are Delores who is the damsel and the two prostitute characters, Maeve and Clementine, both prostitutes although we did see Armistice, the female outlaw. There are others but not of much note.

What the heck is a louche bachelor? Logan is described as such.
Edited by tgir, Nov 1 2016, 11:05 PM.
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Krystal
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Well I watch this episode tonight and I really didn't see any rapes. The orgy was weird but looked consenual. The plot is thickening however and I have to say I don't know quite where the show is going. I don't understand what the bird means

Also it seems like a big waste of money too make artificial horses and chickens Etc when you can have real ones what would be the difference. It's not like the animals have some kind of huge role in this storyline
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Krystal
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I also didn't see the purpose of the orgy except maybe to show that the Confederate guys were a bunch of lowlifes. I didn't mind the nudity except I'd like to see more new guys if they're going to have all those nude women. It only seems fair.

I would expect Dolores to be proficient handling his rifle and possibly a gun his well-being that they lived in a remote area. I believe most women more proficient with firearms in the wild west or at least they should have been.
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Krystal
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Another thought is what if a guest falls in love with one of the hosts can they buy them and take them out of the park? If so why not? In fact I do see that as one of the futures of mankind. I believe we may produce artificial things which don't age and are always beautiful and that many humans might prefer those to real people. With young people spending more and more time on screens and less and less time with one another that seems like the way Society is going in any case. I'll see you group of Millennials at a restaurant sitting at a table and instead of interacting with one another they are all playing on their phones.

I also know a number of people with children who were in their mid-to-late twenties who have never had a significant relationship with a person of the opposite sex or the same sex for all I care. Even though they are graduates of college they seem emotionally stunted.
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tgir
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No rapes in the last episode. Delores seems to be the rape victim of the park.

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I also know a number of people with children who were in their mid-to-late twenties who have never had a significant relationship with a person of the opposite sex or the same sex for all I care. Even though they are graduates of college they seem emotionally stunted.


Yep, that would be two of my kids although I don't think either is emotionally stunted. One is very introverted and the other is (non-officially diagnosed) very high functioning Asperger's--both very smart, very hard working, very good people. Not emotionally stunted, although the one with Asperger's has made tremendous progress, he is a bit...different and hasn't had any long term relationships.

The other two seem to be serial monogamists.

I will never have grandchildren.
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bilki
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Quote:
 
Also it seems like a big waste of money too make artificial horses and chickens Etc when you can have real ones what would be the difference. It's not like the animals have some kind of huge role in this storyline
Probably because PETA is still around and there's a risk of animals being unnecessarily killed or injured. Also, mankind always wants more. If they can create life-like human robots, why not create animals, too? I'm assuming that both Ford and the mysterious Arnold have a God Complex. Futuristic Dr Frankensteins.
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Krystal
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Everytime I think this show it has become more complicated it gets even more complicated the next week. And thought-provoking. Spoiler don't read any further if you haven't watched this past week's episode.



It was in the back of my mind that Bernard might be a host. But I wonder how they will explain the disappearance of yhe woman manager.

Where is Dolores and her guest friend headed I wonder if this is the place where the black hat man is searching for
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bilki
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I'd seen some people speculating that Bernard is a host, and I considered it. The dead son could be implanted memories, but the phone calls to the wife seemed like they'd be real. I guess Ford is in control of more than I realized.

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But I wonder how they will explain the disappearance of yhe woman manager.
I think Ford is making a "new" version of her. Remember when he had lunch/dinner with her at that restaurant and she talked about how she sat at that table the first time she'd ever been there? Ford told her he knew everything about her.

Here's an interview of the show runners in which they discuss Sunday's episode--
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/11/13/westworld-interview-bernard-clementine
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Krystal
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Well I thought these last two episodes were really terrific although my husband thinks it's too confusing. Particularly the very end of the finale left open for Pure chaos. The show really makes me think a lot and it is so well done I can't think of anything quite like it that is on right now. I'll be looking forward to humans resuming in frb
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Dax
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So... soon... I will actually start watching Westworld.

I'm behind on... almost everything. My attention span has been limited, and I've been spending a lot of time on my online game, and...

Lots of binge-catch-ups in my near future.
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bilki
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Krystal
Dec 6 2016, 01:44 PM
The show really makes me think a lot and it is so well done I can't think of anything quite like it that is on right now.
I completely agree. I even went and found that book about the bicameral mind and read parts of it. This show has been enlightening in a way that rarely happens with scripted television.

I loved what Ford said about suffering being an important part of the robots becoming sentient, as I've been considering my own inner torment quite a bit lately.

It was nice for Dolores to feel like an important character again, as some of her story felt clunky through the middle episodes.

My biggest disappointment was that we didn't get to see Dolores shoot Charlotte Hale at the end. The way Charlotte would talk to Ford like she was going to triumph over him made me want to throw things at the screen. Is it wrong that I wanted to see a character get shot just for being smug? lol
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Dax
Dec 6 2016, 05:49 PM
I'm behind on... almost everything. My attention span has been limited, and I've been spending a lot of time on my online game, and...
Dax, what online game could keep you from watching TV? Are the cats playing with you? :P

Hubby found 'Westworld' confusing and kept saying "I don't have a clue what is going on". I liked it a lot. I wouldn't put it up there with 'Game of Thrones' but it had me intrigued.

I did not become emotionally involved with the characters until towards the end and then I really cared about Dolores, Maeve, Bernard and William.

I really liked the twist and turns at the end too.

I think my only problem with the whole thing was I hate Westerns. Luckily it didn't play that big a part in the grand scheme of things.
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