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The Good Wife; Season 7
Topic Started: Oct 5 2015, 06:02 PM (3,866 Views)
KMInfinity
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edited because my brand new laptop is a POS. :rant:
Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 5 2015, 07:31 PM.
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KMInfinity
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I'm a little lost. I don't remember the details of the ending, just remember being pretty disenchanted with it all. I agree with Krystal, Alicia scraping for bond cases seems silly, though I can sadly attest to the inexorable machine indifference of the law at that level.

Is there a good quick recap somewhere, especially how Alicia's 'election fixing' ended, and how she ended up out in the cold from Florrick-Agos-Lockhart. I thought she proved she DIDN'T have anything to do with election rigging.

Maybe since I was out of the loop I wasn't very engaged. I thought the CotW was dumb, and the stuff with Eli weak. I did like seeing Margo Martindale and that could become something, but right now it just seems way too far fetched that Peter could be on the national stage with Alicia as 'the good wife' given their separate lives.

I did like Lucca, despite the stupid stuff with the Chagall.
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KMInfinity
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This is the replacement laptop. Dell #2 - sucks like #1. Yiu cannot believe the runaround I'm getting from the tech - they want me to take a day off work for the in-home tech to work on it. W---T----F!

***

ETA

read the recap, thanks Gate.

Forgot JD Morgan is coming on board. <3

Forgot Finn is history. That's fine, he won't be missed. That was fumbled from the getgo.

I think it's an UO, but I like Cary way better than Canning. I just don't like the character at all. They rub the 'devil' soullessness too much, too cartoony in a bad way for me.

Spoiler: click to toggle


I have no recollection of the Dem lawyer (HER lawyer?) announcing she was involved in the fraud. I hope that lie is corrected. That's pretty unbelievable to me.

So why is everyone at Florrick-Agos-Lockhart mad at her? Still unclear about that.

Once upon a time I really liked Diane and thought she was a well developed, shaded character.

Edited by KMInfinity, Oct 6 2015, 08:00 PM.
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KMInfinity
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LOVED JDM.

Hated everything else about this episode. Way way too many 'pat' solutions to fake problems created by the writers for fake drama. This was a shark jumping episode for me.
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Yeah this was much better than last week. CotW was better, and character stuff better too.

One caveat - once again Diane is convicting Alicia without ever hearing her side of the issue. that's starting to piss me off. They need to address Diane's unconscious anti-feminism despite her professed views - I am assuming the writers are aware of it, what with the intern interview in this episode as the ironic counterpoint to her treatment of Alicia, but I think the topic needs to move out of the subtext and become the text.

http://deborahmay.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/madeleine-albright-quote-480x340.jpg

I am out of the loop with Taylor Swift, Jennifer Lawrence, and Fey and Poehler, so I guess I need some pop culture catch-up since it looks to be actually shaping culture. :P
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KMInfinity
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Whups. Something was nagging me, and that's it!
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Not so fond of this episode. The NSA story has never really gelled for me and it just doesn't make sense that Peter rigged that election. I don't like Eli's singleminded obsession with manipulating Margo, who I think is being seriously underused. And I am tired of watching two unconnected shows: the Alicia show, and the Lockhart, Agos, Lee show.

This episode is getting a lot of praise so I must be cranky.
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I loved the arc stuff but just hated the CotW. Ughhh.

Eli shouldn't have, but I do like that they did it, and set it up that he would want to after all this time. I'm getting a little worried that Eli might not make it out of S7.
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People at PTV in general are snarky - they loved Eli's confession, but point out that Alicia had years after that phone call to work something out with Will. I think they forget that the phone call was in repsonse to an ultimatum she'd given, and since A) she thinks he blew it off and B) he thinks she made a decision based on the call-----they sort of stuck themselves in limbo, since they both assume the relationship from that point on is somehow 2nd rate from the other's POV.

I hadn't thought of it at the time, but if Alicia cuts Eli out of her life, then she is isolated from just about everyone and we have essentially two parallel shows in one - not good. People are seeing major conspiracies in this, suggesting JM is a royal bitca.

People really hated the CotW - Plus----I agree KSR was a dumb way to restate the BTK killer acronym. Kill first, then sedate and rape? lol

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Ah... kidnap... Silly PTV posters. I should know better.

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KMInfinity
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I think the reason he told her was a combination of two things (neither of which is really about Alicia, and both of which are selfish):

1. He'd been feeling guilty, and just like a cheater, true guilt wants to be unburdened even if, in fact, it's better not to know.

2. He is sad that VW is out of his life and he thinks that he now 'understands' Alicia's pain and (subconsciously) wants sympathy from her. The subtext is "I know how you feel about Will now because hey me too feeling the sad feelings."

Honesty after the fact looks a lot like selfishness a lot of times.
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Good episode when focused on Alicia - Jackie+Howard, but I thought the Iowa stuff was dumb. I get they were poking fun of the media and the games played by candidates, but it felt simplistic and cheap compared to thoughtful explorations of political topics they've done before. And the 'two-shows-in-one' thing was again really jarring for me. I don't think they're ending on a strong note.
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I'll wait to see how they DO end it. As much as I (usually) enjoy the politics, and Noth and Cummings, I could see an ending where Alicia finally divorces Peter, and the whole political angle is dropped to focus on Alicia as part of Lockheart, Agos, and Florrick (Lee in prison?).
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Dax
Jan 13 2016, 05:56 PM
JM certainly seems to be a bitch in the Panjabi situation, but I rarely let 'real life' issues taint a show or artist for me... I don't care what people are REALLY like, I care about their work. That Alicia and Kalinda didn't interact on-screen for two or three seasons... That had an effect on the show. It doesn't NOW, since Kalinda is gone...

I've always liked Margulies as an actress, and she doesn't come off like a total diva in interviews (or the Paley panel I saw recently), but... Yeah.
Except, some of the less kind conspiracy theorists think the A/B plot split leaving JM separate from CB and the rest at the law firm is because of difficulties she has working with others. She's mostly with new people this year.

I dunno if it's true or not. I just think I'd like Alicia in-the-mix WITH Diane, Cary, David, etc.
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Some of this just didn't sit right. I think you nailed it when you said Alicia came off bitchy. I think she came off bitchy with Marissa too. I was glad to see her but thought her role was wrong. Better if she'd started working for Alicia and figured stuff out. I didn't buy dad telling her, didn't buy her convo with Alicia. Didn't buy Lucca sleeping with the songwriter...

I do hope the gang comes back together...I thought they'd follow up on the David lee slush fund, but instead we got this mishmash.

Right now everyone seems petty and mean spirited...
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She was talking about Will while in law school. (Not college) You're right Dax, they didn't get together. It was a 'might have been.' My impression: HE was more into her and she might have also felt attracted or even more, but she discouraged his attention because she wanted to focus on her career/school. So they didn't have a real relationship but she knows they could have. And she now knows that she turned him down, but gave it up for Peter, which she regrets - if she was going to give up up her law career anyway, to Peter, she should have said yes to Will back in Georgetown. We know elsewhere that Will WAS in Georgetown with her.

Added after some research...in that phone message Eli erased, Will ends by saying "I probably loved you ever since Georgetown."

Here's the scene. She's mooning about Will, listening to the same song over and over, remembering. She's talking about Will, not some other possible romance in her past. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0VOfwBrhiM Appx 2:20 mark

tgir, I did see hints that there could be an endgame with Peter LAST season, but this season not so much. I think the resolution with Eli will directly connect to Peter too. Eli's insight was that Peter won his only 3 Iowa counties when Alicia campaigned with him. So despite her election loss, he thinks she is the candidate of the future. Eli wants her future to be in politics, and so maybe she never does rejoin Lockheart/Agos/Lee but moves forward with Eli. I think a lot depends on if the series ENDS with 7 or not. If they have an ambiguous ending it will really hurt the show's legacy imo if it turns out to really end.

Edited by KMInfinity, Jan 19 2016, 08:34 PM.
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I read an explanation of why Alicia is so upset with Eli. I don't think I buy it. Here goes:

In S1, before that phone call, she had given Will sort of an ultimatum..that she needed something real and long term, a commitment...a PLAN. In that phone call he said he HAD a plan. It wasn't that he said he loved her, she knew that, it was that he had a long term plan for a commitment. Their affair later was ambiguous - she thought it was sex/friendship/passion, but not a true commitment. The argument is that, in her mind, if she had received that call, their affair would have been serious, a move towards a real relationship rather than a fling, since if he had a plan she was ready to divorce Peter and move forward Will.

1. I don't remember details of the affair, but I do agree it was more sex and less emotional support. They both seemed afraid or unwilling to bring up any serious commitment talk. Skimming some recaps of the time (3X10 - Parenting Made Easy ) most reviewers thought the breakup was inevitable since their relationship was pretty shallow. NYT called it tepid. :firemad: So I think Margot was right, Alicia's built it up in her mind to be something it never was. Which means the Kings are presenting Alicia full of angst, yet there's no real foundation for it.

2. Eli didn't word for word tell Alicia everything Will said so she doesn't actually KNOW it was anything except a shallow hot-for-you 'I love you" comment, given what followed with their affair two years later. She can't be upset over details she doesn't know (The Plan).

Nope. I think this is a manufactured conflict that isn't really working.

As far as the ending, I do think the title could be explored with a new twist:

Peter loses the governorship...leaves political life. (Ruth hinted something like this to Eli.) Does something that makes it 'okay' Alicia leaves him (Not another affair?) Moral: even "The Good Wife" can only take so much. She decides on a divorce, and they announce it together just like that original press conference. Maybe wearing the same suit. :D Peter is full of praise for her. She is free to move on to anything in a possible S8.



Edited by KMInfinity, Jan 20 2016, 06:43 PM.
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Ugh. Just.... That whole episode has given me a really disillusioned feeling for what's coming.

I wish they had let Alicia acknowledge the validity of her grief without all this mumbo jumbo with Eli and the phone call. It just seems contrived and artificial and unnecessary. While that emotional scene with Luca and the laundry was powerful in itself, it rests on such a flimsy pretext. If this were a less weighty show, such as Dr. Who, I'd hand-wave the problem and enjoy the moment. Buy with a show that purports to be serious drama, I expect the pieces to fit together seamlessly and resonate over the long arcs. If they REALLY had this in mind then they should have laid the groundwork better with Will. I get that Josh Charles' decision to leave probably threw a monkey wrench in the original long-long term plans/options, but the mark of a truly great drama would be to recover from the problem, even twist it to their benefit. I think they think they ARE doing that, but I think they're wrong. I wonder what they'd be doing if he was still on baord.

I'm also just a little worried they DO intend that she will commit suicide. I could see that as a metaphor for someone trying to be 'good' in the political arena.

The Cases-otW were really ridiculous. I admire the show's ability to create a plot involving such fringe legal content (the material with Judge Schakowsky) but imo they become so caught up in the legal maneuvering they forget the human issues. And I agree with Krystal, what a stupid way to set up Alicia's return to LAL. I do like Cary, so I think it would have been better if he'd WON the case, got the inmate freed, then invited Alicia to come back again from the point-of-view that she can do so much to help (with pro bono type cases) thru LAL rather than on her own. They almost made that point with investigator $$$$ problems but missed the point. though...I doubt she will return just yet . I'm assuming another twist with that 2.2 mil David Lee's hiding will bring her back as a partner.

I do like the moments with JDM, especially their special tagline "are you fine?" I hope they can manage to move forward with this plot without making a disaster.




ETA: Finally read that TVline article. I very much agree with its assessments.
Edited by KMInfinity, Feb 1 2016, 10:02 AM.
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Dax
Feb 1 2016, 02:44 PM
I like Cary, but hated Czuchry's character on Gilmore Girls largely for that smug quality he has...
I adored him on GG. I can't quite figure out why.... :P Is he going to be part of the GG Netflix?
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Dax it's streaming free on CBS even if you don't have the All Access pass. Maybe for a limited time?

http://www.cbs.com/shows/the_good_wife/video/11568F07-B90F-860F-DF70-93E751472C9E/the-good-wife-judged/
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::Throwing rocks::
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Love TS... that blurb is hilarious.....
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So.... The Good Wife needs to decide if she will stand by her man again? Sounds like Peter is heading for a major fall.

I really liked the dynamics with Luca and Alicia at LAL. I'm expecting Alicia to find out about the 2.2 mil Lee hid from her when she 'separated' fro Lockhart, Florrick, Agos and leverage that into name partner status again.

The stuff with Eli, Marisa, and Ruth was good too, and I liked Ruth stopping by to drop Alicia a hint...

Much spec everywhere about the endgame. Will Alicia stay at LAL even as a name partner? "Avenge" peter by returning to politics? Ride off into the sunset with JDM?

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Krystal it did NOT get much better.

>>>>>Whatever the 2012/Lock thing is about, it doesn't seem to be bringing back a story thread from years ago.

I am now worried this is going to end badly or boringly go out with a wimper. I just can't see how they can pull anything meaningful based on the material from the 2nd part of this season.

Maybe they will surprise me but I am not hopeful.
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I've decided I dislike Alicia. A lot. The only really powerful ending I see now is for her to admit that she's become an even worse jerk than her husband. That to be "The Good Wife" cost her her humanity. Maybe that will happen. She will have an epiphany, and make some drastic change. But at this point I can't see what she could do to demonstrate a real change. Of course, maybe the Kings' final theme is that "The System" forces one to become a shallow, nasty, amoral cog.

I agree with Krystal, I think JM has an inflated sense of herself and has manipulated the storylines and character and either the Kings like it or can't find a way to rein her in. Bleah.

I'm okay with Luca moving up quickly because I do see that kind of favoritism "who you know" as a reality. They've just downplayed Alicia's power (both thru her own rep and her coattail riding of the Guv) in order to make her seem sympathetic and seem like she has suuuuch a haaard life...but that's the whole reason LAL brought her back. So I think the writers/The Kings miscalculated and Luca's promotion shows them trying to have their cake (Alicia is POWERFUL) and eat it too (Alicia has soooo many unfair situations to deal with).

I believed that - for a day - Eli could hear the grand jury (maybe because of the workers opening a duct?) but that no one has noticed that glitch over many days? And yes, Elsbeth's ex is a failed character. He takes me out of every scene he's in. Ugh.



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Man, the folks at PTV are just HATING on the show. In one 22 post thread (so far) they've brought up so many things they dislike you couldn't even count.

The only thing almost everyone agrees they like is Cary getting the hell out of Dodge LAL...

A couple of good lines:
Quote:
 
I hear Cary is moving to Stars Hollow to marry Rory. Glad at least one character is getting out of this mess relatively unscathed.
Though, seriously, if the next scene shows him on a beach somewhere with Kalinda that would be awesome. Several posters liked that idea.

Quote:
 
Ugh show, I get it, Stella got her tired, bony groove back... and it's the least sexy thing I've ever seen. Thanks for ruining the law and sex.
LOL - Love JDM, and I am cool with old-people-sex. I do think JM is attractive and I do think JDM is sexy, hair and tats included (I dated bikers... :P ) But there IS something weird in the way this relationship is written, like Alicia is some kind of arrested development case, which is a legitimate observation many are making....

Someone suggested that the endgame will be Alicia in prison, as a compromise by the Guv's office to save Peter, who will NOT be "The Good Husband." I can see that, but boy we should be sooooo past this whole mess, imo. If they spend much more time with the political crap it will be a huge letdown for me. It's never been believable to me that phone taps are this omnipresent. Not with the easy way criminals avoid it in most every other cop show (and what I actually know about the issue IRL). And even if taps ARE the norm, the targets would know, and take steps. And now the NSA is tapping too? It's lazy writing by the Kings to provide drama. Bleah.

One endgame I'd like is that Cary inspires Alicia to leave LAL behind too...but they burned that plot TWICE now with Cary and then with Luca. Maybe once she's a partner Alicia convinces Cary to turn the tables on Diane and David Lee? The one thing she has NOT done is taken over LG (the original incarnation). And there's that hidden 2 mill dangling plot still in play. Maybe David's plan is to bump Howard to name partner, and that wily fox then approaches Alicia with the 2 mil info, and she leverages that info, with Cary forming an unlikely Florrick, Agos, and Lyman?

I don't really think there is a satisfying conclusion at this point. The only interesting thing to me will be to read all the mocking of the "final King vision." I'll be amazed if something good/powerful/meaningful/fitting/whatever is pulled out of the hat. I'm envisioning "Lost" level post series finale griping. :D

I do want to mention one thing I thought of while watching this episode. Usually I am a believer that the writing is the key to the characters, that it's rare for actors to be able to transcend bad writing. It's wonderful if it happens, but the actors need (and deserve) good writing. And of course good actors raise the level of good writing. In the scene with Cary and Alicia, when he tells her he's quitting, I realized the Kings have benefited more from the actors than the actors benefited from the writing, overall. It wasn't obvious because for many arcs, and much of the time, and for many individual episodes and scenes, the show's writing WAS good. But in this scene, it was clear to me that JM and MC really made that unspoken connection between these two characters very powerful. There was much more in the scene than was on the page. It would be nice to be surprised with a strong conclusion.
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I agree this last episode (720) was a hot mess. Okay they are trying to give everyone a final hurrah..okay. And they need to get a bunch of info-dump plot on board to make some sense of Peter's trial. But soooo much confusion and bad storytelling. Zach's drama as counterpoint to the divorce? really? These last few episodes makes me think the Kings musta been lying when they said this was the actual plan they've been building towards. Unless....all they had was a final scene in mind and no idea how to get there?

The show seems to be implying two possible endgames. One, Alicia pulls everyone together to successfully prove Peter's been railroaded...her final act as "the Good Wife." Two-Cary leads the pack of vultures who throw Peter to the wolves to save their own skins. I'm betting on #1.

I actually more interested in his trial than in Alicia and her plans.

I did like some stuff, especially Diane and McVeigh. And I did like Jason playing hardball with the ME. This is sorta ringing a bell, plotwise. I need to look up if there is back story we know but have forgotten...
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I think the Diane slap would have worked soooo much better if they hadn't assassinated her character over the last year. The biggest problem I have had with this show is its schizoid attempts to have its cake and eat it too. This was a perfect example.

I expected Will to come back but I really thought it would be Alicia remembering actual scenes they shared, not this travesty of narcissistic belly gazing. I agree with gate, nearly Dexter level crap ending. I also agree with tgir in that I do think Alicia alone was very deserved, that she had become someone so shallow and core-less, ready and willing to serve the moment instead of any values or beliefs.

It's the curse of the law field in general that fighting in an adversarial system in order to find justice is a conundrum, if not an outright joke, and as a result I've heard plenty of lawyers on both sides of the aisle bemoan the fact that sometimes they must do things distasteful to their morals, such as defending real jerks, in order to be true to their craft. But I've also heard ADAs going easy on a vic they knew needed a break, and a defense attny 'not working too hard' for a scumbag.

(Lunch Friday before my school's play was catered by The Common Plea. :P Maybe Krystal remembers it?)

The Kings seem to lack the ability to shade the law in such a way that anything noble or admirable remains on the table. And that's okay, if they were complete cynics and wanted us to see Alicia and many of the others as anti-heroes, or seriously flawed characters. But instead, we'd get whiplash from the flip-flopping when they'd want us to root for certain characters, especially Alicia. Fundamentally, They wanted us to see the law and life from Alicia POV, to 'feel' for her struggles, to have sympathy for her dilemmas, and yet instead she came off, UNINTENTIONALLY, I think, as self righteous and arrogant.

I'll be glad to stop hate-watching this. :D
Edited by KMInfinity, May 9 2016, 07:07 PM.
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I don't know if the writers/actors commented, but some of the post-show recaps suggested that the only thing that made sense of the slap was if he did NOT have an affair and Alicia and Lucca contrived the accusation to discredit him. Otherwise, Diane would have to "accept" the legitimacy of the strategy.

Not sure I buy it.

Most people I know personally hated the finale.
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