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| Game of Thrones; Season 5 | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 27 2015, 05:04 PM (2,896 Views) | |
| Dax | Jun 7 2015, 09:41 PM Post #121 |
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Wow. Again. That was cool. I like Jorah... I'm glad that worked out for him. I'm betting that Stannis is going to be polling poorly from here on out. |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 7 2015, 10:00 PM Post #122 |
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The snarling and bitterness in the BOOK thread at PTV is hot. I guess, after all this time, some of them still thought there were 'lines' GRRM wouldn't cross. But folks are saying D&D confirmed it's happening in the books too. A lot of people were shipping Shereen and Rickon - now I like to ship on occasion but would never have thought to do it in GoT. :D The general consensus is that people were expecting it if they were paying attention to the book foreshadowing. I think in the books Melisandre, Selyse, and Shereen are still at the wall, and so people were thinking M & S did it without Stannis knowing, or at least he was giving him self plausible deniability. People are now hoping Stannis kills the Boltons, Brienne kills stannis to avenge renly (and now Shereen). Though a sizeable percent want Davros to kill Stannis. Best PTV comment: You know it's brutal when the worst thing in the episode is not Trant's pedophilia. Best observation: If Stannis has seen visions of the White Walkers and the wights (implied), and it's not about his own pursuit of power, then the Show needed to drive that point home better. I do agree that it was hard to care about the pits and the Harpies after Shereen. Might have been better to end with Shereen, not Dany on Drogon, - move that stuff up? Everybody moaning about all the touching by Jorah. Nearly everybody hating everything at Dorne. I agree, not well developed or written. I am still not a fan of Arya's story. |
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| bilki | Jun 7 2015, 10:12 PM Post #123 |
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Burning Shireen at the stake was one of the worst things I've seen on television. Is there anywhere lower for this show to go? If there is, I'm sure they'll find it. It's surprising that a man who's willing to murder his own daughter is still struggling to climb his way on the throne. The Harpy attack was intense, and Drogon showing up was pretty cool. I appreciate this story from a mother and child (dragon) point of view but I still don't think Daenerys deserves to sit on the throne more than anyone else. I must really love Maisie Williams because I enjoy watching Arya even if it doesn't feel like much is happening. Was Meryn Trant the guy who chopped off Ned's head? I couldn't think of why Arya was so consumed with him. Dorne is such a hot mess. |
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| Dax | Jun 7 2015, 10:12 PM Post #124 |
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I'm surprised there'd be a D&D confirmation already... By morning, sure, but tonight? Where?.. I'm good with either Davos or Brienne getting Stannis (but kinda don't think either will happen next week). Dorne looks to have been a bust, yeah. Disagree, while Shireen is the emotional crux of the hour, sure, it was right to go out on the big Dany spectacle. I liked Arya's stuff. Jaqen will be upset about her going off-script, right? The Girl cannot be No One if she's trying to scratch a name off The List... But oh, do I wanna see her get Trant... He killed Arya's dancing teacher, Syrio... http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Meryn_Trant |
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| bilki | Jun 7 2015, 10:34 PM Post #125 |
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Thanks, Dax. That makes sense. Watching Arya be Arya and not No One...this was probably my favorite episode of hers this season. I guess she learned nothing from all those smacks she got earlier this season. I wish we knew more about why King's blood is so important. It seems so silly to me. DNA is DNA in my mind, though I can accept that there are some who have genetic strengths that others don't. Does R'hllor have some sense of specific genetic codes, or is Melisandre just a religious nut? She did have that Shadow Baby, though, so she must be doing something right. Edited by bilki, Jun 7 2015, 10:36 PM.
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| bilki | Jun 7 2015, 10:41 PM Post #126 |
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My understanding is that HBO Now has commentary that runs after the episode ends. This is where they are supposed to talk about Martin telling them about Shireen. |
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| Dax | Jun 8 2015, 11:13 AM Post #127 |
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Got it. Watched it on YouTube later... Yup. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/stannis-burns-shireen-game-of-thrones-dance-of-dragons http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/07/game-thrones-Shireen |
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| Dax | Jun 9 2015, 03:36 PM Post #128 |
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http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/dance-of-dragons-was-harder-to-film-than-red-wedding.html http://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/interviews/a35584/game-of-thrones-director-david-nutter/ |
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| Gatekeeper | Jun 9 2015, 03:57 PM Post #129 |
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I had just read the 'foreshadowing' in Book 3 a few days ago so I expected it to happen. I still can't believe they went there but it wasn't a shock at all. I'm still on book 3 and I find it interesting how much they scramble the events in the book vs. the tv show. I definitely want to go back and watch the first 4 seasons again to see the difference. I guess we are pretty much in uncharted (unwritten) territory now. |
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| Dax | Jun 9 2015, 04:40 PM Post #130 |
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Books - Tyrion and Dany haven't met yet, and the big battle at King's Landing is, I think, still 'pending', promised for the start of Book 6... Hey, maybe it'll be finished and out before Season 6 starts next year. That's POSSIBLE... (but it is NOT possible that Book 7 will come out before Season 7...). My BookStannis-defending friend is hung up on the circumstances... Melissandre, Salyse, and Shireen were all left up at The Wall, they're not with Stannis... |
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| Gatekeeper | Jun 9 2015, 05:34 PM Post #131 |
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Thank you for update. Kind of funny "BookStannis-defending friend". This person must be hard core Stannis lover after Sunday's episode. The foreshadowing is definitely in the books and Stannis is NOT a good person. There is nothing lovable about him in the books. |
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| Dax | Jun 9 2015, 09:49 PM Post #132 |
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http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/09/game-of-thrones-murderous-red-priestess-carice-van-houten-on-melisandre-s-child-burning-ritual.html? |
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| Gatekeeper | Jun 10 2015, 09:43 AM Post #133 |
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To All “Game Of Thrones” Book Readers: The End Is Nigh ~ http://www.buzzfeed.com/alexisnedd/long-may-we-reign-or-not#.qrq097nE6 Funny. :) |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 14 2015, 10:06 PM Post #134 |
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Well. Dany back with the Dothraki...check. I'm calling a marriage with Tyrion and Dany. Calling it now. So Meereen will be ruled by Grey Worm and Missy, advised by Tyrion and the Spider.... I was so hoping Arya wouldn't go blind. Arya's Many Faced God story continues to be the second creepiest and not a favorite. I did think Syrio's face was going to be one of the pull-offs. I now feel bad for Cersei. Or, like with Ramsay and Stannis, hate her tormenters more than I hate her. Frankengregor will reignite the Cersei hate I'm sure. Lena Headey was awesome - but... I question all the time setting up and dwelling on The Walk of Shame, at the expense of Jon's story at the Wall... Did Brienne kill Stannis or not? The way that scene was staged and the way Stannis kept looking past her made it seem like something was creeping up on her. So Theon and Sansa escape. um.... that was really anti-climactic for me. I am so so sorry Myrcella is dead. Poor Jaime. I am assuming the Riverland wanderings were cut so that the players for the Game of Thrones could be narrowed a bit, which means Cersei's kids need to go. But what a waste. How will Bran and his Tree Hugging impact events? Powerful greenmagic on the way I'm sure..... Melisandre positioned to resurrect Jon... using the power from Shereen's king's blood, since it wasn't used to win Stannis the Battle of Winterfell? ADWD ended with a more ambiguous Jon death scene, so I am told. A friend called it a 'clear soap death." lol Jon seemed dead-dead in the show, except for Melisandre's arrival... His last word... "Olly?" instead of "Ghost?" has people pissed. Though... Spoiler: click to toggle Also, a lot of people are upset that this never happens in the Show.... http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bastard_Letter Best PTV comment (PP) - People are going to be discussing this until S6 or the Book comes out, but...it's not going to be thrilling talk. More like, am I gonna be disgusted or pissed?The general consensus from the Bookwalkers seems to be that D&D have been awesome at condensing GRRMs books, but they are terrible at making their own plots work, and this season is the weakest so far. GRRM is claiming The Winds of Winter will be finished before the 6th season premiere. :firemad: Edited by KMInfinity, Jun 14 2015, 10:07 PM.
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| Dax | Jun 14 2015, 10:51 PM Post #135 |
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>> I'm calling a marriage with Tyrion and Dany. Could be. >> I was so hoping Arya wouldn't go blind. I am sad about this. Terrific to see her cross Trant off the list, but I knew there'd be a heavy price for it... >> I now feel bad for Cersei. I don't know if I feel BAD for her (still of the mindset that it, you know, serves her right for empowering them in the first place)... but I do want to see her 'get' the High Sparrow BACK, sure... And I want Margaery rescued... >> Did Brienne kill Stannis or not? I expect so. Anything else would be a huge shock. >> So Theon and Sansa escape. um.... that was really anti-climactic for me. I liked Theon tossing Myranda off the balcony very much. Their big jump was scary... ow... that snow had BETTER be really soft... it was unclear to me that they were jumping 'away', not just down... >> I am so so sorry Myrcella is dead. That was really sad. And what of Trystane? He's on the boat, right?... What's the ring Dany drops just before the Dothraki ride up on her? Is that her wedding ring? I'd think that would be a GOOD thing for her to have, not something to hide... Either way, she shouldn't be in danger here, I wouldn't think... I mean, it LOOKS scary, but... why wouldn't they still love her? Small victory - Very glad Sam, Gilly, and the baby have left The Wall. Happy to see Tyrion and Varys reunited. Jorah and Daario off Khaleesi-searching should be fun. I think Melisandre resurrecting Jon is entirely plausible. It makes sense for Harrington to deny it, but his continuing (or not) on the show would be, I imagine, an extremely difficult thing to keep secret (even more so than, say, sneaking Fairley into the production again... not that I expect that, either, but...). Book 6 out before next spring or not, I think we'll 'know' if we'll be seeing Jon Snow again... |
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| bilki | Jun 14 2015, 11:17 PM Post #136 |
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It seems like I'm usually underwhelmed by the season finales, and this one was no different. Most of it was stuff I expected to happen, with Myrcella's death being the only thing that shocked me. Of course, I knew her death was coming after the way that kiss was such a production. The thing about Jon being dead-dead....sometimes I wonder if Martin is f-ing with the audience and the rebirth of Azor Ahai really is just a myth. Could Melisandre actually be wrong? The walk of shame bit was just too much for me not to feel pangs of sympathy for Cersei. I was hoping this story would play in a more satisfying manner. This show does have some great moments throughout the season but I find so little of it thought-provoking. Just moving from one plot to the next. Perhaps the source material shares the same quality. |
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| Dax | Jun 14 2015, 11:40 PM Post #137 |
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Season 5. 28 cast members top-credited. Actors only credited for episodes in which they appear. Sequence is consistent for the first five names - Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Dany, and Jon -- but then becomes seemingly randomly or arbitrarily assigned -- and then Ser Jorah (Iain Glen) receives the 'with' final credit. Tyrion -- In all ten episodes Jaime -- In 7 -- #s 1-2, 4, 6-7, 9-10 Cersei -- 8 -- 1-4, 6-8, 10 Daenerys -- 8 -- 1-2, 4-5, 7-10 Jon -- 9 -- 1-5, 7-10 Jorah -- 8 -- 3-10 Arya -- 6 -- 2-3, 6, 8-10 Sansa -- 9 -- 1-8, 10 Theon/Reek -- 6 -- 3, 5-8, 10 Samwell -- 9 -- 1-5, 7-10 Littlefinger -- 6 -- 1-4, 6-7 Varys -- 4 -- 1-3, 10 Brienne -- 6 -- 1-3, 5, 7, 10 Bronn -- 6 -- 2, 4, 6-7, 9-10 Stannis -- 8 -- 1-5, 7, 9-10 Margaery -- 5 -- 1, 3-4, 6-7 Davos -- 7 -- 1-3, 5, 7, 9-10 Melisandre -- 6 -- 1, 4-5, 7, 9-10 Gilly -- 6 -- 1-2, 5, 7-8, 10 Tormund -- 5 -- 1, 5, 7-9 Ramsay -- 6 -- 3, 5-8, 10 Tywin -- 1 -- 1 (corpse) (Bran did not appear in Season 5, but he'll be back) (Next six were previously credited as recurring) Missandei -- 7 -- 1-2, 4-5, 8-10 Daario -- 7 -- 1-2, 4-5, 7, 9-10 Tommen -- 5 -- 1, 3-4, 6-7 Ellaria -- 5 -- 2, 4, 6, 9-10 Jaqen -- 6 -- 2-3, 6, 8-10 Roose -- 4 -- 3, 5-6, 8 ----- Characters Whose Actors Have Been Top-Credited (41 so far) -- How Many Episodes (out of 50) They've Appeared In So Far -- 46 - Tyrion (9/10/9/8/10) 44 - Cersei (10/9/8/9/8) 41 - Jon (8/8/8/8/9), Daenerys (9/8/8/8/8) 40 - Sansa (9/7/8/7/9) 39 - Jorah (9/7/8/7/8), Arya (9/9/9/6/6) 35 - Jaime (8/4/7/9/7), Samwell (5/6/8/7/9) 32 - Theon/Reek (9/8/6/3/6) 30 - Littlefinger (8/7/4/5/6) 28 - Varys (7/6/5/6/4) 27 - The Hound (8/5/8/6/0), Tywin (4/7/8/7/1), Brienne (0/7/7/7/6), 26 - Bronn (5/7/4/4/6), Joffrey (10/6/7/3/0) 25 - Bran (8/7/6/4/0), Catelyn (9/8/8/0/0) 24 - Stannis (0/7/5/4/8) 22 - Missandei - (0/0/8/7/7) 21 - Davos (0/6/4/4/7), Robb (8/6/7/0/0), Margaery (0/4/6/6/5) 20 - Shae (2/8/6/4/0) 19 - Melisandre (0/4/6/3/6) 18 - Gilly (0/3/6/3/6), Tommen (4/4/0/5/5) 17 - Roose (0/4/7/2/4), Gendry (2/7/8/0/0), Ygritte (0/4/8/5/0), Tormund (0/0/7/5/5) 15 - Ramsay (0/0/6/3/6), Daario (0/0/3/5/7) 12 - Jaqen H'ghar (0/6/0/0/6), Jeor Mormont (5/3/4/0/0), Talisa (0/5/7/0/0) 10 - Ned (10/0/0/0/0) 9 - Ellaria (0/0/0/4/5) 7 - Robert (7/0/0/0/0) 5 - Viserys (5/0/0/0/0) Presently Dead - 14 of those 41. Recast info - Daario - Ed Skrein, Season 3; Michiel Huisman, Season 4-on Tommen - Callum Whary, Seasons 1-2; Dean-Charles Chapman, Season 4-on; Chapman also played Martyn Lannister in 2 episodes of Season 3 |
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| tgir | Jun 15 2015, 12:10 AM Post #138 |
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Well, I had hopes for Jon and Dany as they would make particularly beautiful babies (and I am certain he would restore her fertility) but Jon and Sansa seemed more likely if a more boring choice. Their children would be boring, for certain. Tyrion and Dany would be interesting and fun and SMART which is why I predict it won't happen. It is true that I cannot help but feel sorry for Jamie, as many despicable things as he's done. And yes, I did feel for Cersei, although it serves her right for setting the Sparrow up high in the first place. We don't know what's happened to Margery, right? I've been a little hit/miss re: watching. There are still 2 other dragons, right? Will we see them again? |
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| Dax | Jun 15 2015, 12:33 AM Post #139 |
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High Sparrow still has Margaery locked up. The other two dragons are chained up in Meereen. http://deadline.com/2015/06/game-of-thrones-finale-spoilers-season-5-lena-headey-season-6-1201441028/ http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead |
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| bilki | Jun 15 2015, 09:12 AM Post #140 |
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After the way they played Jon's confrontation with that White Walker, it would suck if he's truly dead-dead. The show set the whole thing up in a way that we're waiting for the moment they come face to face again. *sigh* |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 15 2015, 09:39 AM Post #141 |
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Dax>>>>>>I liked Theon tossing Myranda off the balcony very much. Their big jump was scary... ow... that snow had BETTER be really soft... it was unclear to me that they were jumping 'away', not just down... People are saying they jumped into the moat. Huh? Dax>>>>>Small victory - Very glad Sam, Gilly, and the baby have left The Wall. In the books, they leave with Maester Aegon, so I wasn’t sure this would happen. Dax>>>>>makes sense for Harrington to deny it, but his continuing (or not) on the show would be, I imagine, an extremely difficult thing to keep secret.. There is a possibility suggested by the book, its ending (soap dead) and how KH could be telling the truth. It’s pure spec, from a lot of Bookwalkers, and the #2 theory after ‘Melisandre resurrects him.’ (Remember, in the books (ITB) Shereen never left the wall, so ITB, given Stannis is so much ‘better’ it makes sense he doesn’t accede to her burning Shereen, and she does it on her own.) Spoiler tagged JIC: Spoiler: click to toggle Bilki>>>>>Most of it was stuff I expected to happen, with Myrcella's death being the only thing that shocked me. Of course, I knew her death was coming after the way that kiss was such a production. I agree, this was very ‘coda’ rather than finale. I knew Myrcella was d-u-n when she was allowed to leave Dorne. The ‘kiss of death’ sealed it. Pardon my clichés. :D Bilki>>>>>the rebirth of Azor Ahai really is just a myth. Could Melisandre actually be wrong? This is what seems to be burning in the Bookwalker minds. After Shereen’s death was ‘wasted’ people began to doubt, but now that she was so clearly positioned on the Wall…. I need to rewatch exactly what Stannis said to her . Bilki>>>>>the walk of shame bit was just too much for me not to feel pangs of sympathy for Cersei. ITA, especially since Show-Cersei is nowhere near as bad as Book-Cersei. So we keep the Walk, as a dramatic plot element, without the context. Though I suppose Show-only folks will mostly feel she deserved it anyway, I feel like the Show once again focuses on misogynism, because as Cersei implied to the Sparrow, it ain’t like there are men being punished this way. It's subtle, but GRRM can claim he is a feminist by highlighting/revealing/exposing/discussing misogyny in a medieval culture (of which remnants exist in ours) whereas the Show seems to exploit those elements. Bilki>>>>I find so little of it thought-provoking. Just moving from one plot to the next. I agree. The benefit of the faster pace is being undermined by the lack of context. It works as the extraneous plots are CUT, but the telescoping of the plots included often oversimplify characters, events, issues. Remember that though the book is third person narrative, it’s limited by the POV character in that chapter and very very restricted. It’s almost as if GRRM invented (or is an early implementer of) a new POV. The benefits in the book is that we really get inside the heads of the characters, really understand their thoughts, reasonings, internal compromises, etc. >>>>>Perhaps the source material shares the same quality. No. It has very different flaws, if flaws they are. My lit prof friend is of the mind the books are true literature, true art… the Show? Wonderful as entertainment but not even close or on a par with the books. Tgir>>>>>Tyrion and Dany would be interesting and fun and SMART which is why I predict it won't happen. LOLOL – tho I need to point out that Dany’s mess of ruling is epically bad; Jon is more a victim of circumstance, rather than bad decisions. Tho he’s made some…. Tgir>>>>>It is true that I cannot help but feel sorry for Jamie, I rather disliked Jaime in the books…he wasn’t a POV character in the first two books, and the 3rd book is overshadowed by the horrors mounting. I think I’ve linked this before - Rather good summaries of each of the five books. Click on each character POV and it goes deeper into the character’s summary. Fun to check out Book VS Show again at this point…. http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/A_Game_of_Thrones I’d forgotten that except for Tyrion and Dany, every POV character in the first book is a Stark. http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/A_Clash_of_Kings http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/A_Storm_of_Swords Simultaneous plots: http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/A_Feast_for_Crows http://iceandfire.wikia.com/wiki/A_Dance_with_Dragons Edited by KMInfinity, Jun 15 2015, 09:41 AM.
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| Dax | Jun 15 2015, 11:20 AM Post #142 |
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I understand there were book references to Jon maybe being able to warg, but not on the show, I'm pretty sure... I like the opening image of the episode, with the melting ice. It worked. Thaw came. If only half the men hadn't said 'um... Just got an urgent note from a raven... I gotta go back home...' |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 15 2015, 11:21 AM Post #143 |
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Things that BookWalkers are upset with – Davos is seriously underused. He didn’t even ignite the search for Rickon. He knows a Stark boy is alive. The sand Snakes sucked…a lot. Don’t they care about Trystane. What if HE is Azore Ahai? Steven Dillane was brilliant. Book Stannis was awesome (says Stannis fans) and Dillane captured that, despite given really crap material – all the worst of Stannis and none of the best. They are certain the Battle of Winterfell and Stannis’ end will be so-much-better ITB. ITB, half of the North bannerman join Stannis. See next. The North Remembers – the underbelly of the North politics was ignored. It seems as if Ramsay has the North’s support. Ramsay seems invincible…he is not. The North is not complacently following the Boltons…. The Game is played in the North too, not just in KL or wherever Varys is. Having Littlefinger swoop in to save the day is seriously not what GRRM has been setting up. (Is it? :O ) FTW was mangled beyond belief. The complexity of the plots centered around the Watch were streamlined to the point of making Jon look like an idiot. The failure to include the Pink Letter (from Ramsay to Jon) was inexcusable. (The letter is the only hint – a Ramsay lie? – that Stannis’ army was destroyed and Stannis killed.) R + L = J is a fundamental key to the book. Jon’s death cannot happen until that is resolved, if ever. Otherwise, it’s the worst kind of bad writing to foreshadow what is never significant. Many? Most? A majority? Of BookWalkers were certain that Jon was the end game Jon’s ice + Dany’s fire. Sure, subvert tropes, but if you subvert them so completely the meaning of the story is destroyed then we’re talking bad writing on the level of William Burroughs just randomly cutting and pasting shit together. “Tropes became tropes because they work. Surprise and subversion only work if they lead to something even more satisfying than what you were expecting. Yeah, "Ha, fooled you, everyone dies!" subverts the tropes, but it doesn't make for a very good story.” The books, as grim as they are, still have hope. The Show does not. It is possible GRRM will finally quash all hope in the closing book. If so, The Show is only following GRRM’s master plan. However, BookWalkers are increasingly of the opinion the Show is cherry picking dramatic moments without understanding the complexity or context, and so shifting and skewing the overall tone and story. (IDK what I think about this – wait until both are completed?) Margery’s irrelevance. Arya is struck blind early in her training. Here, it seems like punishment for exhibiting agency. She can’t ‘be.’ In the books, it’s clear she is in training, not being manipulated. She takes a potion every night to continue her blindness. I’ll stop now. (Can you tell this is the first day of my summer vacation? :P ) |
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| tgir | Jun 15 2015, 11:45 AM Post #144 |
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Happy vacation, KMI! I have to go back Wednesday. Seriously not happy about that and it's spilling into my last couple of days.. Plus: rain. Still/again. Edited by tgir, Jun 15 2015, 11:46 AM.
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| Dax | Jun 15 2015, 01:47 PM Post #145 |
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I forgot - how does Davos know Rickon is alive? Or is that ITB only? Obviously, yes, we'll be better able to judge the adaptation better when it/they are complete. However, I'll disagree that the showrunners don't understand the complexity or context... Sure, there's 'cherry picking' going on, but... The books are ENORMOUS. They've condensed the five of them into fifty hours of show. I am hugely skeptical of any Bookwalker insinuating that they'd have done a better job of it if they'd had the chance. I want more Margaery, and not just because I'm in lust with Dormer. I really do hope she's got a bigger role to play than 'sorta' being Queen, three times running... I know Arya was disobedient and there are rules (and that Jaqen was not present here ITB), but I don't LIKE the rules, you know? Jaqen was so understanding before - 'give me three names', but NOW she has to be No One... http://www.tvinsider.com/article/2172/game-of-thrones-finale-behind-the-scenes-of-shocking-death-season-5-episode-10/ http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/kit-harington-couldnt-wait-for-you-to-find-out.html http://www.tvinsider.com/article/2177/game-of-thrones-kit-harington-and-john-bradley-jon-snow-and-samwell-tarley-last-beer/ http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/15/game-thrones-brienne-stannis?hootPostID=be04fb5c34d1b045366b68094bd4f158 http://www.vulture.com/2015/06/game-of-thrones-ian-beattie-on-that-horrific-death-scene.html http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-walk-shame?hootPostID=67eb83e5894b5b4834f4ccb30edae538 |
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| bilki | Jun 15 2015, 06:07 PM Post #146 |
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KMI, I'm glad you have more time to spend with us. I didn't have as much time to spend in the Bookwalkers thread over at PreTV, so it's nice to get a summary. I'd forgotten about Rhaegar and Lyanna being another reason why it would totally suck if Jon's really dead. I'm starting to think Jon being dead-dead would top the missing Stoneheart as far as the show's disappointing choices go. The show has to have a trick up their sleeve, don't they? |
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| Dax | Jun 15 2015, 06:55 PM Post #147 |
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Unless Jon is dead-dead in Book 6, too, in which case it's not a 'Show's choice'... I'm leaning to 'he'll be back' (in both), but it's a hard thing to place a bet on... |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 15 2015, 07:18 PM Post #148 |
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Dax the things the BookWalkers are upset with are book-to-Show changes. I don't think Show Davos knows this stuff. I keep forgetting that, for all of the "unpublished" material, there's still a lot that's happened ITB that hasn't happened yet....but now we wonder..if ever? I think the point with Davos is that it"s an example of a plot that would give Davos more screentime, and so its loss hurts Davos fans. >>>>>Obviously, yes, we'll be better able to judge the adaptation better when it/they are complete. However, I'll disagree that the showrunners don't understand the complexity or context... Sure, there's 'cherry picking' going on, but... The books are ENORMOUS. They've condensed the five of them into fifty hours of show. I am hugely skeptical of any Bookwalker insinuating that they'd have done a better job of it if they'd had the chance. They are not claiming they'd do it better - rather, that it IS so difficult and that it's much inferior to the books...and that many complaints by Unsullied especially about mishandling of rape/female characters and their agency are Show complaints that disappear from a lit analysis of the books. Also that as the show diverges from the books, D&D are less capable of creating material based on GRRM's cliffnotes as compared to their abilities to adapt what is already on the page. I think a lot of this comes from Book readers (like me) who really really liked the show's choices early on in condensing the books and now are rethinking that as the cut material impacts more and more characters and plots. I do think S5 is weaker than previous seasons. My lit prof friend suspects Martin may have decided to 'deconstruct' television adaptations the way he's subverting epic fantasy tropes. IOW, he's sabotaging HBO's version. lolol |
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| KMInfinity | Jun 15 2015, 07:37 PM Post #149 |
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I was reminded that the Prologue to A Dance with Dragons was from the POV of a wildling warg character... apropos of Jon's need to warg into a new body? http://www.tor.com/2014/11/20/a-read-of-ice-and-fire-a-dance-with-dragons-part-1/ Good summary and analysis.... |
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| Dax | Jun 15 2015, 08:01 PM Post #150 |
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I don't find Season 5 'lesser', really, except I'll agree with the general consensus that Dorne was a mess. Definitely not what was expected or hoped for when we heard the 'Jaime and Bronn go off to rescue Myrcella' pitch... that was going to be cool. And then it wasn't. I know we're supposed to be glad of skipping all of the 'Iron Islands' stuff, but I do hope we'll see Theon's sister and father again at some point... |
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