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Game of Thrones; Season 5
Topic Started: Feb 27 2015, 05:04 PM (2,898 Views)
KMInfinity
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I'm pretty sure in the books it's the same....Arya leaves The Hound in dire straits...assumed to die, but like soaps....
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bilki
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Yeah, Arya leaves The Hound in bad shape in the books. But it wasn't after a big fight with Brienne.
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Dax
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http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/04/keisha-castle-hughes-game-of-thrones
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-sand-snakes-season-792472
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Dax
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http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/01/ser-barristan-dead-thrones

http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/maisie-williams-game-of-thrones.html

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/01/game-thrones-melisandre-interview

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/why-doesnt-the-game-of-thrones-map-always-match-up-with-where-the-story-is
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Gatekeeper
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I finally started book 3. Interesting episode last night. It's kind of hard to be reading the books and being behind the TV show.

So who has read the books 'before' the TV show and what are your thoughts??? If I had time I'd watch all the previous seasons again while reading to see the differences. Did I mention the books are LONG? I wonder how much I would have liked the books without the preconceived images of the characters from the TV show. So many questions I have.
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Dax
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KMI read 1-3 a long time ago (pre-show), but not 4 or 5 (but has read all ABOUT them, as has bilki).

Think I said this somewhere, but maybe not... my parents recently mega-binged... Mom had seen 1 before, but that's all, Dad had seen nothing - they watched 1-4 and the first couple of 5 all in about two weeks...

Last night - Man, those Stone Men were scary...
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bilki
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I like the idea of reading the books but I know I won't care for all of the details. Plus, KMI has mentioned "torture porn", which I know I won't like at all.


How funny was it that Jon Snow showed up just as Aemon was talking about Daenerys being out there all alone. I'm enjoying the stuff at The Wall much more than in the past. And finally some talk about the White Walkers (Others), though I didn't think Jon stressed enough how easily they'll be slaughtered without the Wildlings on their side.

Surprised Melisandre went off with Stannis, as she stays at The Wall in the books. I wonder if/why they don't want her involved in the events at The Wall on the show.

Poor Mormont.
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KMInfinity
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So so many differences. My Bookwalker friend says it's like the characters (from the book) are in an alternate universe. From her POV, they are so different now they might as well be two distinct things... "Oh...GoT - the show that stole the GRRM characters." (Though she loves both...lol)

Everything on the Wall continues to be awesome.

I'm pretty impatient with the Meereen stuff, until I remember that the Show has moved pretty fast compared to the books.

I wonder if Tyrion will ever say his famous line? (hope he doesn't.) Those scenes at Valyria were terrific, and I loved the irony of them watching Drogon fly away while the Stone Men were hiding in plain sight, ready to attack. I am assuming this is a 'road not taken' but I'l spoiler bar it anyway:
Spoiler: click to toggle


The Winterfell stuff is ALL new and ALL spoilery I assume.

People are dissing on the Sand Snakes.

At this point, we are again seeing the the cost of such a huge canvas. I kept wanting to see Jamie and Bronn, and Cersei, and Arya, and more Brienne, and whatever happened to Varys?
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Dax
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Yeah, I wondered what Varys is doing now, too, after his travelling companion got kidnapped.

Big canvas. I missed Arya this week, but she's in the next one. Yeah, want more Jaime & Bronn, too...
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KMI, you only read the first 3 books? Why not 4 or 5?
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KMInfinity
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I talked about it a lot back when S1 and S2 were happening. As I move thru the Show, I'd guess my reactions to the novels would be different, but at the time I thought they were too violent (the Theon-Ramsay stuff was awful), overwritten, and the stretches between novels was ridiculous. It took nine years from Book 1 to Book 3. I also didn't like some of the fantasy deconstruction that GRRM was pioneering. When I heard AFfC and ADwD would split concurrent plots and characters I was just pissed.

Some mitigating factors:
*I had not yet watched Buffy, which broke a path for me into accepting a certain level of violence and realism in my fantasy and horror.

*I have such vivid dreams (even now) and am so easily 'immersed' that I become overwhelmed with stories. They become so real for me I have a hard time shaking off their worlds. So the unrelenting depressing nature of characters that mostly died, mostly got tortured, mostly had few redeeming qualities - it wore me down. I almost didn't even finish A Storm of Swords after the Red Wedding.

*The TV show really does soften the books a LOT. Tyrion is nowhere nearly as likable in the books, for example, and he's one of my favorites.
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KMI, I must have missed that or never read it. Remember I marathoned the first 2 or 3 seasons.

I'm on book 3. I have no problem with the violence. I also would prefer my dreams be about GoTh vs. my real life dreams but that's a story for another day.

I do think the TV show softens the books and being that I've seen the TV show first I'm somewhat 'ready' for the bad stuff and the characters are already created for me. I do agree Tyrion is not as likable in the books and I'm so happy they have Peter Dinklage playing Tyrion. Being that I have Peter in my mind while reading him as Tyrion helps a lot.
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bilki
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KMI, do you know if there is a consensus among BookWalkers that "Young Griff" is a fake? It looks like the show is dropping that character, which would seem to change Varys' entire motivation.
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KMInfinity
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Based on casting spoilers before S5 began, and the current plots... the consensus is that Young Griff isn't going to appear, and that Varys is indeed on the Dany train. But there's this from Nikolai Coster-Waldau...

http://winteriscoming.net/2015/03/30/game-of-thrones-season-5-rumors-to-griff-or-not-to-griff/

This reviews the case pretty well. And gives a great summary of the book-show struggles. AND nicely details the Gordian knot GRRM tangled with when trying to keep the plots aligned with the kids' ages.
http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/04/game-of-thrones-no-aegon-young-griff

Funny. Comment from a recapper that it's now easier (shorter) to list the book/show similarities than the differences. Because most everything is different.
Edited by KMInfinity, May 13 2015, 07:43 PM.
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bilki
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Thanks, KMI!

Funny that Coster-Waldau's spoiler thingy was supposed to be of a duck but it looked like a goose to me.

There were some interesting comments in there that made me realize that Young Griff could be in Dorne, if the show is still going to use him. I had forgotten about that connection.
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bilki
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That was a terrible ending. Of all the directions I didn't want the show to go, that was on the top of the list. For as bad as The Red Wedding was, at least it came straight from the books.

Enjoying the adventures of Arya.

The Sand Snakes aren't working for me. Kidnapping someone in an open garden in broad daylight? I thought Myrcella and the Martell boy were kinda cute together but the rest of that was groan-worthy.

Poor, stupid Cersei thinks she's so smart.
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KMInfinity
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Yeah we're in a bad stretch here. The Show is trying to cover a lot of ground with minimal sketching. On the one hand, I'm glad it's moving forward, but on the other hand...we're moving towards a lot of bad. Winter is coming.

This episode captures perfectly why I stopped reading. There's no hope, not for anyone. The Show's mantra should be the classic "Life sucks and then you die."

I actually really hate the stuff Arya's doing with The Faceless Men. I was hoping it would play better than the recaps and summaries I'd read, since I didn't read these adventures in the books, but nope.

Are they calling this "The Winter Wedding" or "The Black Wedding"???

I guess, in the final book/season, there can be a redemption, a renewal, a "New Hope" (excuse the crossover) but I have a feeling GRRM intends the end to be tragic and brutal, and D &D are on board.

The haters are really revving up on twitter.
Edited by KMInfinity, May 17 2015, 11:26 PM.
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bilki
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If all is hopeless, does that mean The Others (White Walkers) will be the victors? The thought has crossed my mind.
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Gatekeeper
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Last scene of last night's episode did not make me happen. I'm getting worried reading your comments KMI that there won't be a happy ending. :( I also understand why you stopped reading the books.

Ok one quick question, so is the TV show past the point of the book writing? Is that why last night's scene isn't in the books but will be?

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Dax
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They have surpassed where Sansa and Littlefinger had been left.

There was a different minor character as Ramsay's bride (from what I understand...).
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bilki
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In the books, Ramsay marries and abuses Jeyne Poole, a girl pretending to be Arya. This is done to solidify the Boltons' claim on the North, like the show has done with Sansa. I've read that a preview chapter for The Winds of Winter has Sansa at The Vale (I think), so this isn't necessarily spoiling the next book but more of the show going in a totally different direction.
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Dax
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http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/17/game-thrones-sansa-ramsay-interview

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/05/17/game-thrones-sansa-wedding

http://grrm.livejournal.com/427713.html



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KMInfinity
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I do like his comments about Harry Dresden. The show was a travesty of smallness compared to the (early) books. HBO's GoT is a magnificent thing, even though increasingly different. And better, imo, of course.

The most relevant twitter comments mentioned just how bad it could have been for Sansa, and still might be, that this was rather tame, given the hunts, and his brutality to the women cut from The Show.
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KMInfinity
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Overall...

I'm worried about Bronn. Those Dornishers use poison on their blades. People everywhere are hating the Dorne plot. Too bad, it had potential.

Loras and Margery----What the hell are the Kingsguard doing? okay, The Faithful have power, but really. This was badly staged and developed.

Loved the way Jaqen forced Arya to admit she does care about the Hound. Hope he is NOT dead.

Littlefinger is a rat bastard so of course it is he who will end up on the iron throne...just before the white walkers take them all down? He knew what would happen to Sansa when he left. I suppose he thinks he will ride in to rescue her and so get her gratitude and hand...unless, finally Theon does rebel and save Sansa? I wonder what LF plans to do to Cersei so he doesn't need to behead Sansa. Or is that an option for him?

Show watchers finally realize Ramsay is worse than Joffrey. Though such a divergence from the book is having massive backlash, there are a couple of ways Sansa's rape could be justified by the plot and character development, so I'll avoid calling it gratuitous. For now.

Will Theon tell Sansa that Bran and Rickon are actually alive?
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bilki
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Who knows why I can tolerate a head being smashed in with a guy's bare hands but rape and sexual abuse are two things I have no taste for in my entertainment. I know I hated Joffrey but at least him being king and the politics involved were interesting. Ramsay Snow is a piece of shit and I wasn't even watching his scenes until they had to throw Sansa into the mix. Jerks!
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bilki
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Quote:
 
He knew what would happen to Sansa when he left.
There was an interview on EW.com from one of the show's producers who said Show Littlefinger didn't know of Ramsay Snow's reputation for being such a rotten human being when he left Sansa at Winterfell. Of course, he did know that the Boltons aren't nice people.


Quote:
 
Though such a divergence from the book is having massive backlash, there are a couple of ways Sansa's rape could be justified by the plot and character development, so I'll avoid calling it gratuitous. For now.
The thing that pisses me off is that I still hate Theon for turning on the Starks, so if this is being done for his good, then Sansa is being victimized for no good reason.
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Dax
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Dorne - I thought it a bit wonky that both parties arrived for the girl within minutes of each other.

I like Margaery and side with her over Cersei, for sure...

Littlefinger is a cad, sure, and while I'm sure he'll do anything he wants to serve himself, I also think he'd rather save/keep-for-himself Sansa than let her die for Cersei... (And what Bilki said, re:Cogman/EW interview about Show Ramsay)

Does Theon KNOW Bran & Rickon are alive, or just suspect...? I thought he thought they were dead..
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bilki
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Theon could only say he didn't kill Bran and Rickon with certainty. But according to the Show Wikia, he killed those other two boys only after he couldn't find Bran and Rickon. It doesn't say he thought they were dead.
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Dax
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Ah. I'm either misremembering or maybe I had it wrong in my head when it aired... I thought he was 'tricked' (by the kids and their protectors) into believing those were the kids, not that he was the one doing the tricking (to make it look like he'd done it). Either way, I'm with you in not feeling sympathy for Theon. Fuck that guy.
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KMInfinity
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bilki
May 18 2015, 09:01 PM

Quote:
 
Though such a divergence from the book is having massive backlash, there are a couple of ways Sansa's rape could be justified by the plot and character development, so I'll avoid calling it gratuitous. For now.
The thing that pisses me off is that I still hate Theon for turning on the Starks, so if this is being done for his good, then Sansa is being victimized for no good reason.
It's hard to say until the whole series wraps, but it sure seems like the story is being told from Theon's POV, that HER rape is what motivates HIM, that it's HIS character development and agency that's of concern, not Sansa's. Because the book versions of cut material sure seems like they're keeping Theon's stuff but transplanting with Sansa, which sucks a LOT. Because then yes, it's all about Theon.

>>>>>Cogman/EW interview about Show Ramsay
Cogman has been called out by about a bazillion posters everywhere about this. It's total nonsense. The only way it can be true is if LF is a dumbass nitwit. And that's not true, he's supposed to be (and when it suits them has been shown to be) subtle, smart, in-the-know...with only Varys as a possible rival in this particular arena. People have cited a ton of examples of his supposed knowledge of events far and wide, and of Winterfell in particular. He knows. And he plans to allow it so he can rescue her and look good in comparison. Almost certain of this.

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