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Mad Men; Season 7
Topic Started: Jan 11 2014, 01:42 PM (4,726 Views)
KMInfinity
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Agree with tgir. Horrifying and weird. If this was an attempt at 'capturing' the 60's vibe it was epic fail imo. Too much of this episode seemed to come out from left field. I've read a few recaps and reviews and I disagree with most that the show is successfully integrating the 'antidisestablishmentarian' theme well. Maybe it's because our core characters were rather shallow to start with, we only see the shallowness and hollowness of the impact of the 60s on them.

The only story moment that really held my attention was when Harry clued Don into the Phillip Morris plot and how it would affect him, and how he handled that situation, making Lou and Cutler look nohow.

ETA I did notice the continuing 2001 motif, with Ginsberg lipreading/eavesdropping from 2001 Hal's perspective while Cutler and Lou plotted in the computer room just as Dullea and his fellow astronaut did.
Edited by KMInfinity, May 12 2014, 08:57 PM.
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Dax
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Anybody remember an early-90s GL character... detective Patrick Cutter? Never had much of a story... chemistry with Marcy Walker's Tangie, but she was still entangled with Josh, I think, so they never quite committed to a full romance between relative newbies... think he was eventually a murder victim of Brent/Marion...

Anyway. That actor, Scott Hoxby. Caught his name in the credits last night. Lee, the guy in the middle of the Commander Cigarettes trio of guys.
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bilki
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Thanks, Dax! I knew he looked familiar but I would have never connected him with being Detective Cutter. Just too long ago. Cutter was a cool character. I remember being disappointed when Brent/Marion killed him. And, Nadine.
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Dax
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I liked him on GL (and remembered his name somehow... my brain is full of GL trivia that doesn't seem to fade much), but didn't recognize him, really, even after I went back over it, knowing it was him. I mean, he DID look familiar-ish, but I couldn't place him as Cutter...
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bilki
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I'm pretty terrible with names but for some reason my brain remembers a face, especially the eyes. So, when I saw him there last I knew I'd seen his face/eyes before (even with the aging process at work) but I didn't think I'd figure out where I knew him from. He has a distinctive facial structure, which is probably why I remember him. I should rewatch to see if his voice is still the same.
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Krystal
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Yes he looked familiar.

I liked the show a lot actually. Sally is the daughter Betty deserves. The poor little son is a nervous wreck.

Betty truly is worhless. She is a terrible mother, does nothing for her children.it's all about her.
Here she is being critical of the war protests but she would make sure her son never went if he was older.

I liked the episode. I thought they did a good job contrasting the East and West coast life style at the time.
Edited by Krystal, May 13 2014, 12:38 AM.
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Marg
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I didn't particularly like this episode.

Agree the nipple thing was just over the top. I have read some reviews and the reasoning behind this, but I just don't agree. Not sure why Ginsberg's mental breakdown had to be associated with Don's earlier drunken/drugged hallucinations.

If Megan was trying to convince Don to stay in CA, I think she failed with the three-some thing.

Yes, Betty is a terrible mother and I don't blame Sally for her actions toward her.. Sally is a spoiled brat, though. But on the flip side, Betty has been treated terribly first by Don and now by Henry.
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Krystal
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I don't think Henry treats her badly. He accepted a woman with 3 kids, many men would not, and he treats them very well. Better many times then she does. He is reacting to her awful behavior, anyone who had to live with her would snap sooner or later.

The nipple thing didn't really faze me one way or another, but I guess they could have had him melt down in some other fashion that would have been less gross and more effective.

If Megan was trying to get Don to stay in LA she sure had a strange way of doing it.
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Dax
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Less gross, sure.

More effective, I don't think so.

Peggy's reaction was gold.
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Krystal
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Well, he could have attacked Peggy at home, he was making me very anxious. Really glad that did not happen.

What pisses me off the most is that there are only 2 left, and I am just getting back in to the story. Really. Pisses me off.
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Dax
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He kinda DID... but of course, she could handle him...

I don't think he's a danger to others, but he's definitely proven to be so to himself... that MUST have hurt...
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KMInfinity
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Krystal
May 13 2014, 02:10 PM
What pisses me off the most is that there are only 2 left, and I am just getting back in to the story. Really. Pisses me off.
This.

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Dax
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/bthesite/tv-lust/bal-qa-ben-feldman-on-his-cringeworthy-mad-men-moment-20140513,0,7047523.story

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/05/13/mad-men-ben-feldman-nipple/
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tgir
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KMInfinity
May 13 2014, 07:02 PM
Krystal
May 13 2014, 02:10 PM
What pisses me off the most is that there are only 2 left, and I am just getting back in to the story. Really. Pisses me off.
This.

Yep.
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Krystal
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They keep bringing up similarities between Sharon Tate and Megan in the Times. I really don't think the show will go there, at least I hope not. All of a sudden Tate is very hip to these young people. She was pretty, but really hadn't done all that much. Was a terrible thing that happened, but if it wasn't Hollywood everyone would have long forgotten.

Weiner is somewhat of a sadist though, and his writing for the women can be very harsh, so who knows.
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Dax
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http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/05/mad-men-elisabeth-moss-interview-season-7.html

http://franklinavenue.blogspot.com/2014/05/la-cameo-heres-where-mad-men-shot-those.html Neat!

http://www.deadline.com/2014/05/stephen-colbert-matthew-weiner-mad-men-final-season/?

http://www.gq.com/blogs/the-feed/2014/05/mad-men-james-wolk-interview-season-7.html
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Dax
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Though we all share disappointment that the midseason finale is tonight, I'm really surprised nobody commented on 7.6 at all.

I enjoyed all of the Don/Peggy stuff very much. Lovely dance between them...
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tgir
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Oh, I thought that I did. I was very happy to see the beginnings of reconciliation between Joan and Roger as well as Don and Peggy. They've all been so miserable with the situation/ distance between them.
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blosslover
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OMG...what what....not coherent at the moment but what a last scene...
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tgir
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yes--how weird
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Dax
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Very cool midseason finale.

Poor Harry.

Ted cutting off the engine of the plane on the Sunkist guys... Pete's shout of "And the clients wanna live, too, Ted!"... big laughs.
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Marg
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I thought this was a very good episode to end this mid-season finale, except for the final scene which was strange.

I like that Peggy/Don are working together again. I was surprised that Joan continues to be hostile towards Don.

Not surprised that Megan/Don are separating -- saw that one coming!!
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tgir
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It was a good ending point but I still protest the split season.

Peggy/Don as a team is very good for both. Also not surprised that Megan/Don are separating. With Betty's statement that she now just thinks of Don as a bad ex-boyfriend: I wonder if Don/Betty won't end up back together. Poor Sally, for whom I usually have so little sympathy. Unable to have her own opinions but adapting those of whatever MALE she's around but only so long as they are in physical proximity.

Roger/Joan: good, and good that she has her own separate priorities. I was glad that they explicitly said why she was so angry with Don: he cost her money when he refused to take the company public. Now that she's getting a BIGGER payout, she should lay off that, though.

Surprised about Bert.
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KMInfinity
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very good mini-finale, except...a whole year to wait? Bah humbug.

I was confused about a couple bits and will need to rewatch, but here's the bits:

-I get Megan has been hot and cold with Don, but lately seems desperate to hold on. I dislike that she's the one who ended it. It would have made sense earlier, but not in the midst of that phonecall. Did I miss something?

-I get that Don cost the agency oodles of money, but Roger said it all. Don is sought after by other agencies. So why is Cutler so anti-Don? Manage him, don't eliminate him.

I adored the scene of Peggy and her neighbor boy. Just as I was thinking...how cool she is building a community outside of work. BAM. Off to Jersey.

I also loved the Burger Chef stuff.

I still think Don's first family could have fallen into the sea and I wouldn't miss them.

Hamm is brilliant at suppressed rage and controlled emotion. The way he stopped Cutler's attack with the impromptu meeting and vote was cool. And then his support of Roger for the buyout. I predict this becomes a mistake they need to undo in the end.

The very weird ending makes me think Don is not yet out of the clear. (Obvs. since there's seven episodes remaining) He seems to be back on track, and seems to have reclaimed his soul/work balance, but that bit of looney tunes with Bert suggests he's lost his marbles.

The material in 7.6 was great too.

So how does it all end? With closure? or In medias res? Tragically? Optimistically? For some or all?
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Dax
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>> a whole year to wait?

Should be 7 (or 8? 9?) less weeks than that...

>> I get Megan has been hot and cold with Don, but lately seems desperate to hold on. I dislike that she's the one who ended it. It would have made sense earlier, but not in the midst of that phonecall. Did I miss something?

Picking up more of her things on her last trip in 6 was telling... it was just what she was saying about the job and 'fighting so hard'... I don't think it was on her mind to do it right then... just happened. Don has seemed resigned for awhile that it WOULD happen, but seemed pretty determined to not be the one that calls it...

>> I get that Don cost the agency oodles of money, but Roger said it all. Don is sought after by other agencies. So why is Cutler so anti-Don? Manage him, don't eliminate him.

Well, for story purposes, Jim's 'the bad guy', but from his POV... no, I liked his 'unimpressed' speech. Since joining forces, he's never seen Don be 'Don'. I can see why he'd think they'd be better off without him.

>> I still think Don's first family could have fallen into the sea and I wouldn't miss them.

I appreciate the check-ins. Often less interesting, sure, but they don't eat up THAT much time. The focus IS Sally - not Betty - and Sally is still rightfully a huge part of Don's story.

>> I predict this becomes a mistake they need to undo in the end.

I don't think so. With seven hours left, I think this was our third (fourth if you count the Brits buying them) big agency shake-up, and they're not gonna go there again. Of course, with the family Burger Chef ending last week, it did FEEL like they might do a Don/Pete/Peggy new firm, but... nope, this instead.

>> The very weird ending makes me think Don is not yet out of the clear. (Obvs. since there's seven episodes remaining) He seems to be back on track, and seems to have reclaimed his soul/work balance, but that bit of looney tunes with Bert suggests he's lost his marbles.

Just Bert and Don saying goodbye to each other. Nothing ominous or 'big' there, except maybe the message that the best things in life are free (coming right after a big business/money coup).

>> So how does it all end? With closure?

Some, I'm sure.

>> In medias res?

More of that.

>> Tragically?

There's still worry for Roger's daughter (and Ginsberg?), but I don't think there will be another major death, like Bert's here...

>> Optimistically? For some or all?

For Don and Peggy, yeah... think so.

Five more months to go in the 60s. But do we get to peek ahead? Will we get a glimpse of the 80s? Or... the present day?
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tgir
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RE: Cuttler vs Don: I think it is rivalry/jealousy. Cuttler is used to being the handsome, charming one and Don is just better at that. Not even a contest. Perhaps I'm just flashing back to Harry Hamlin's Sexiest Man Alive award in 1987. But Hamlin is 20 years older than Jon Hamm. Cutler represents the past era far more than Don, who is hitting his middle years on the cusp of a great societal change. Don will make the transition, I think. He's shown that he can see into the future and is capable of recognizing and nurturing young talent. Cutler--has not, I think, not that I've seen. But he's not stupid. He has to see that Don will be the new king (until he isn't anymore of course). As far as 'managing' Don: can't be done and certainly cannot be done by any such as Cutler. As this half of the season has shown. Cutler is only able to set people up to fail. He's not able to actually do anything himself or to set things in motion for anyone's success except perhaps his own. And that is a losing game.

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KMInfinity
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Quote:
 
>> Tragically?

There's still worry for Roger's daughter (and Ginsberg?), but I don't think there will be another major death, like Bert's here...
so we don't think the Falling man in the credits is foreshadowing Don's fall/death...There was lots of spec last season that the show would end with Don's death or even suicide.



>>>>>RE: Cuttler vs Don:
Good analysis. I agree Cutler is jealous and clueless. I keep wondering though why I'm so poor if I can see that so many wealthy powerful people are so clueless. it seems so obvious that turning Don loose is a win, but Dax is right, he's never seen 'Don being Don.'


Edited by KMInfinity, May 26 2014, 12:17 PM.
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Dax
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Well, Cutler is to Ted kinda the same way Roger is to Don (age range, their relationship)... and Ted IS talented and smart, generally speaking, not the joke that his depression has made him into recently...

It is fun to sometimes think of LA Law-era Hamlin while watching him now (here, or on Shameless). He's different, older, than I imagined he'd be... where Jimmy Smits - even playing radically different characters - is a lot more 'recognizable' to his younger years...

No, I've never subscribed to the Falling Man in the Credits Should Be Taken Literally thing. I mean, as a symbol of Don 'falling', sure... it's worked from the start. A lot of the series has been about Don falling and failing. But I don't think Mad Men ends with his suicide (or Pete's, or anyone else's... we had Lane. That card has been played. Ted turning the plane off and scaring the hell out of their clients... it's interesting that they'd find comedy in suicidal thoughts... but I don't see Ted taking his life, either).
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tgir
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I think Hamlin on Mad Men is very much like Hamlin on LA Law. Yes in many respects Cutler/Ted is Roger/Don but my point stand: Cutler doesn't have half the talent or charisma that Don has. Ted is probably as talented but not as handsome or charismatic. I think Cutler was supposed to be that portion of the team. He isn't the charming Peter Pan that is Roger either. He's rigid, jealous and insecure. Don is more than Cutler/Ted all by himself. If cutler saw Don at his best, he'd only be more jealous.
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Krystal
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I agree, Hamlin is just Hamlin only older. Smits has really broadened his range.

Don had the charisma for sure, faulted or not, he's the man.

I still am interested in Sally's development but both ex wives could fall off the earth and I wouldn't care.
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